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Thread: Obama administration to announce controversial emissions cap on power plants

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    Re: Obama administration to announce controversial emissions cap on power plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Hysterical tantrum. Why don't we just take some measured steps to fix the problems with minimal cost and intrusiveness? Because the end game is to transition away from fossil fuels and that industry is the most profitable in history.
    Still waiting on the environmentalists to suggest some, so far their approach is draconian.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama administration to announce controversial emissions cap on power plants

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Let's say you are 100% correct. Do you really believe that by the U.S. doing ALL of this, while the rest of the major countries like China, Russia, etc. do nothing that it will make the "difference" needed to turn the tide? The U.S. is already a "clean" country compared to the rest of them while the other countries are full steam ahead INCREASING their CO2 output.

    Point being that until you get countries like China and Russia on board, forcing the cuts, forcing the increase in costs, is doing nothing but hurting Americans and crippling our economy. And my point is only assuming you are 100% correct. I don't believe you are, so basically you are crippling the U.S. economy, while hurting Americans. Good job!
    Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  3. #33
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    Re: Obama administration to announce controversial emissions cap on power plants

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    That won't satisfy the environazis whose goals is to destroy these industries, not take reasonble steps that assure the grid's maintenance and growth through the introduction of proven technologies.
    eh, maybe some of them, but i don't really buy into the meme.

    personally, i want to replace fossil fuels because they are an outdated technology that leaves us beholden to dictators and other assholes. countries like Russia can use it as leverage, too. we put a man on the moon with less technology than is probably in a smart phone. we can replace oil, and then our kids won't have to deal with massive problems when reserves run low.

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    Re: Obama administration to announce controversial emissions cap on power plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    What Obama is doing is basically the only thing that is politically feasible and its going to be another "scandal" or outrage. If we could make things happen however we want of course things would be done differently.
    oh, i get that. i just think it's the wrong strategy. neither party would sign onto the correct one.

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    Re: Obama administration to announce controversial emissions cap on power plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    eh, maybe some of them, but i don't really buy into the meme.

    personally, i want to replace fossil fuels because they are an outdated technology that leaves us beholden to dictators and other assholes. countries like Russia can use it as leverage, too. we put a man on the moon with less technology than is probably in a smart phone. we can replace oil, and then our kids won't have to deal with massive problems when reserves run low.
    Do you think we should use rocket technology to power our homes? That's what took us to the Moon. I'm being fiscious, but my point is that it's not as snap-of-the-finger simple as many untrained, non-technical environmentalist policy-wonks make it. You don't turn a whole country around overnight. And so far some of these environment mearsures don't produce the results they envisioned. Take corn energy, and how much net energy it takes to produce ethanol.

    Ethanol fuel from corn faulted as 'unsustainable subsidized food burning' in analysis by Cornell scientist | Cornell Chronicle

    And that is just ONE example of the flawed renewable-energy culture we're developing in this country, using politics and buzzwords instead of science with integrity.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  6. #36
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    Re: Obama administration to announce controversial emissions cap on power plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Oh please , go to the conspiracy forum.
    No conspiracy. Just the facts. Go back to Obama's first Climate Change czar, Carol Browner.

    Until last week, Carol M. Browner, President-elect Barack Obama’s pick as global warming czar, was listed as one of 14 leaders of a socialist group’s Commission for a Sustainable World Society, which calls for “global governance” and says rich countries must shrink their economies to address climate change. By Thursday, Mrs. Browner’s name and biography had been removed from Socialist International’s Web page, though a photo of her speaking June 30 to the group’s congress in Greece was still available.

    Socialist International, an umbrella group for many of the world’s social democratic political parties such as Britain’s Labor Party, says it supports socialism and is harshly critical of U.S. policies.

    The group’s Commission for a Sustainable World Society, the organization’s action arm on climate change, says the developed world must reduce consumption and commit to binding and punitive limits on greenhouse gas emissions.

    Mr. Obama, who has said action on climate change would be a priority in his administration, tapped Mrs. Browner last month to fill a new position as White House coordinator of climate and energy policies. The appointment does not need Senate confirmation.

    Mr. Obama’s transition team said Mrs. Browner’s membership in the organization is not a problem and that it brings experience in U.S. policymaking to her new role.

    “The Commission for a Sustainable World Society includes world leaders from a variety of political parties, including British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who succeeded Tony Blair, in serving as vice president of the convening organization,” Obama transition spokesman Nick Shapiro said.

    “Carol Browner was chosen to help the president-elect coordinate energy and climate policy because she understands that our efforts to create jobs, achieve energy security and combat climate change demand integration among different agencies; cooperation between federal, state and local governments; and partnership with the private sector,” Mr. Shapiro said in an e-mail.

    Mrs. Browner ran the Environmental Protection Agency under President Clinton. Until she was tapped for the Obama administration, she was on the board of directors for the National Audubon Society, the League of Conservation Voters, the Center for American Progress and former Vice President Al Gore’s Alliance for Climate Protection.

    Her name has been removed from the Gore organization’s Web site list of directors, and the Audubon Society issued a press release about her departure from that organization.

    Republicans said Mrs. Browner’s work with Socialist International raises questions.

    “Does she agree with the group’s positions on global governance - that the United States should abdicate its international leadership to international organizations? Does she support its position that the international community should be the ultimate arbiter of climate change policy?” said Antonia Ferrier, a spokeswoman for House Minority Leader John A. Boehner, Ohio Republican.

    “These are questions that merit answers - especially when you consider this group’s deep skepticism about America’s ability to be a force for positive change in the world,” she said.

    An aide on the Obama team said its information shows that Mrs. Browner resigned from the organization in June 2008. The aide, who asked not to be named because he was discussing internal matters, said the transition team was aware she had been a member of the group when she was vetted.

    The Socialist International Web site didn’t have a copy of her June 30 speech, but the agenda for the meeting had her scheduled to speak as part of a panel on “How do we strengthen the multilateral architecture for a sustainable future?”
    Browner was picked for the position because her stance is on the same page of this administration. And if anything, Obama and the left have shown us that they are willing to make people poor and shrink their incomes, slow economic growth, and implement feckless policies like Obamacare and feckless energy policies that cause hardships for many Americans making them poorer by the day. The less money they have the easier it is to shrink the economy and lessen their consumption.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...t-ties/?page=2

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    Re: Obama administration to announce controversial emissions cap on power plants

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Do you really believe that by the U.S. doing ALL of this, while the rest of the major countries like China, Russia, etc. do nothing that it will make the "difference" needed to turn the tide?
    1) The actions of other nations do not absolve the US of its responsibilities to reduce emissions.
    2) The US is still the 2nd largest emitter in absolute terms, and one of the highest per capita.
    3) Other nations are reluctant to do anything, when they see the US (a big and affluent polluter) do nothing. So yes, this will encourage other nations to take action.


    The U.S. is already a "clean" country compared to the rest of them...
    It really isn't.




    Point being that until you get countries like China and Russia on board....
    And how would the US do that, if we don't even bother to get our own house in order?

    I agree that China is going to be a huge problem for emissions, and real soon. But that doesn't justify the US doing nothing at all, and the US doing nothing will certainly not convince China to do anything.


    Nor will this "cripple" the US economy. E.g. the US Chamber of Commerce claims, which are on the hysterical side, modeled the economic impacts with greater reductions than Obama actually suggested, and don't credit any positive economic activity at all from the proposed rules. Even with those flaws, it suggests the new rules will put a 0.32% dent in GDP. That hardly sounds like a death blow to me.

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    Re: Obama administration to announce controversial emissions cap on power plants

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    ...it's not as snap-of-the-finger simple as many untrained, non-technical environmentalist policy-wonks make it.
    True. But....

    1) That doesn't change the fact that we really do need to start taking action, and soon.
    2) That doesn't mean that change is impossible, even rapid change.
    3) Costs for renewable energy sources have been dropping over the past 30 years, notably solar. As we put more work into renewables, the costs will continue to drop.
    4) Keep in mind that energy usage does often respond to price fluctuations. When California went through the Enron-induced price hikes a few years ago, usage also dropped, and very rapidly.

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    Re: Obama administration to announce controversial emissions cap on power plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    True. But....

    1) That doesn't change the fact that we really do need to start taking action, and soon.
    2) That doesn't mean that change is impossible, even rapid change.
    3) Costs for renewable energy sources have been dropping over the past 30 years, notably solar. As we put more work into renewables, the costs will continue to drop.
    4) Keep in mind that energy usage does often respond to price fluctuations. When California went through the Enron-induced price hikes a few years ago, usage also dropped, and very rapidly.
    True, but....................none of that is true. Nothing to see here, let's go on with our agenda.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #40
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    Re: Obama administration to announce controversial emissions cap on power plants

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Do you think we should use rocket technology to power our homes? That's what took us to the Moon. I'm being fiscious, but my point is that it's not as snap-of-the-finger simple as many untrained, non-technical environmentalist policy-wonks make it. You don't turn a whole country around overnight. And so far some of these environment mearsures don't produce the results they envisioned. Take corn energy, and how much net energy it takes to produce ethanol.

    Ethanol fuel from corn faulted as 'unsustainable subsidized food burning' in analysis by Cornell scientist | Cornell Chronicle

    And that is just ONE example of the flawed renewable-energy culture we're developing in this country, using politics and buzzwords instead of science with integrity.
    nah, i think we should build a **** ton of nuclear (i prefer thorium, from what i've read about it) and renewables. blanket the country with windmills like they have done in my town (they're actually pretty neat,) solar panels in the desert, and hydroelectric in the ocean. that would be a hell of a good start, IMO.

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