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Thread: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

  1. #531
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    WONDERFUL!!!! So since didn't invade Right Away, that made it okay for us to invade NINE YEARS LATER?
    Partly, sure.

    OMIGOSH!!!! They fired on coalition aircraft flying over their nation!!!! That OBVIOUSLY means that Saddam had nuclear weapons ready to launch!!!! INVADE!!!!!!! Spend TRILLIONS of dollars and thousands of lives, because Iraq FIRED on coalition aircraft flying over their nation!!!!!

    Gee, how stupidly unpatriotic I must be for not being willing - nay, EAGER - to spend trillions of American taxpayer dollars and thousands of American lives to keep Iraq from firing at coalition aircraft. I mean, that's REALLY unforgivable, unlike, say, when our destroyer blew up that Iranian airliner, or when the Soviets blew up KAL 007, or when the Soviets (allegedly - there's evidence for and against) torpedoed and sank the USS Scorpion with all hands.
    Those UN sanctions were part of the treaty he signed. Violation of the UN no fly zone, and attacking UN aircraft that are enforcing it are clearly aggressive actions....regardless of who's country they were flying over.

    That counterweight to Iran is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, mostly using material we supplied him in order to "counterweight" Iran. There comes a time when enough is enough. BTW, since your grasp on the history of the region is now suspect, are you aware of Desert Fox and the liberate Iraq act?

    Ah. So because I strongly disagree with you ("Invade them! They fired on coalition aircraft!"), my "grasp...is now suspect".
    No, your grasp is suspect because you are unaware of the particulars that lead to the invasion. You seem to rely solely on talking points.

    So why didn't we invade Rwanda to stop the genocide there? Why didn't we invade Cambodia to stop the genocide there? Why didn't we invade China to stop the genocide there?
    We did deploy troops to Rwanda. I was one of them. Cambodia, in my opinion, is an international failure, and we are party to it.

    And how is YOUR grasp of history, sir, if you really think that America has any history at all of invading nations to stop genocides? Hell, if you'll ask the Native Americans - and the Filipinos, for that matter ("Kill every Filipino male over the age of ten!"), WE are not exactly innocent when it comes to committing genocide.
    I'm well aware of our ambivalence regarding genocide, and that takes us back to my "enough is enough" statement. I recommend you read "A Problem From Hell: America and the Age of Genocide" by Samantha Power.

    WAR, sir, should only be something undertaken against what are potentially existential threats...and even then, it should be avoided if the "cure" is worse than the threat (see: Mutually Assured Destruction doctrine). Otherwise, war is very, very expensive, in terms of blood and money. Counting all the interest we are paying and will pay in the coming years, we are quite literally spending TRILLIONS of American taxpayer dollars on the invasion of Iraq.
    I understand your opinion, and disagree with it's selective application here. If you fully understood the history of Iraq, I might take it more seriously. War is not a distant, abstract, concept to me. I was one of the ones that had to get involved...as were/are many of my friends. Lecture someone else.

    Based on the intel she was given by the Bush administration - which, of course, turned out to be false.
    She had full exposure to the intel...all of it...and she voted for it, while others voted nay.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  2. #532
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And once more you convict without hearing both sides of the story. So many times I dealt with people on board who Just Knew that this or that person was guilty of whatever, and wouldn't give the least consideration to the thought that maybe, just maybe there's another side of the story.
    There is no conviction here, I am not a judge. I'm offering an opinion based on what's available to me.

    Look, just like any other piece of human waste, if Bergdahl deserted, then screw him. BUT do you personally know whether he was receiving death threats from his fellow soldiers? Do you personally know whether his chain of command had been informed and ignored the report?
    Do you personally know any of that is true? Now, when you're done re-enacting a few good men, let's talk seriously.

    Of course that's almost certainly NOT what happened...but WE DON'T KNOW. YOU don't know. And we won't know until we get HIS side of the story.
    Do you really expect him to say that those big meanies were being big meanies so I ran away?

    THAT, senior, is why there's the AMERICAN tradition of "innocent until proven guilty". But I guess that only applies to people YOU personally approve of, and not to people YOU don't like.
    That, Shipmate, is not a tradition, it is a legal standard, and it is in no way justification for returning 5 of the enemies deadliest while the war is ongoing.

    And we did NOT go to get her until we KNEW exactly where she was...and even then, we didn't know where she was until an unidentified source from the hospital told us where she was at. Did we know exactly where Bergdahl was? Did we know which hovel or which cave or which shed behind the farmhouse he was in?
    Uhm, they could find Osama, but not Bergdahl? Come on, shipmate.

    Ah. So according to you, Obama KNEW where Bergdahl was, and had the deal all set to go...and told his people, "Let's wait on this and not make it happen until we need to distract from another scandal."

    Riiiiiiiight.
    Well, if you like your Bergdahl....you can keep it.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  3. #533
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I have no problem with that - as soon as he's declared psychologically able to stand trial (and it doesn't take much to be so declared), yes, he should. Desertion is a very serious crime.

    BUT until that day he is declared guilty, he is innocent. That is American judicial tradition...in both the civilian AND the military world.
    An article 32 investigation is like the civilian grand jury. It does not require that anyone, other than the investigating officer be of sound mind.

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