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Thread: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

  1. #501
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    They fired on Coalition Aircraft enforcing the no-fly zone, they attempted assassination of a US President, denied access to weapons inspectors, etc etc. Regardless, a "clear and present danger" is far from required....though Saddam was clearly a threat.
    "attempted assassination of a US president"? Reference, please.

    And firing on a coalition aircraft in that nation's airspace does not comprise a clear and present danger to other nations.

    FYI, Saddam was useful, if Dubya had had the sense to see it. He provided a counterweight to Iran...and when Saddam was gone, guess who took over by proxy in Iraq? It was the real winner of the Iraq war: Iran.

    Y'all insisted on invading Iraq...and Iran became all the more powerful because of it.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Last I recall, having CIA agents in a nation does NOT equate to an invasion of that nation.
    How about military choppers and Navy fighters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post

    "Boots on the ground" doesn't apply to CIA agents.
    I love watching liberals cherry pick to fit their ideology. Your statement doesn't disappoint!

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    To claim otherwise doesn't reflect well on you in front of the other veterans here.
    You think it concerns me how well I reflect on other veterans on DP?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I am a retired Senior Chief. I am not declaring him guilty. I am saying he's a deserter, and should go to trial, guy. In the meantime, guy, the US president traded 5 generals for 1 private...a deserter...before the cessation of hostilities. That is aiding and abetting the enemy, guy.



    Listen, guy, this isn't a court of law, guy, this is a debate forum, guy, and the colonel, guy, is towing the party line, guy, because his future is directly tied to the presidents feelings, guy. Those junior enlisted personnel actually served with him, guy, actually know him, guy, I trust them far more than that colonel.....guy.
    Okay, GUY, listen up. If you're a retired senior chief - and I'm taking you at your word that you are - then you KNOW as well as I do that Bergdahl is INNOCENT until he is proven guilty in a court of law...and because of that it was our DUTY to bring him home by whatever means we had at hand. We could swap the five Taliban for him...or we could have risked more lives of Special Forces to get him. But we needed to bring him home. Even GEN McChrystal said the same thing...and you know he's no fan of Obama.

    What's really stupid about this whole brouhaha, Senior, is that nobody on the Right seems to acknowledge the obvious, that if Obama brought him home, Obama's hated for it...but if Obama had left him there, Obama would be hated for that, too. It did not matter what Obama did, he'd be castigated for it by the Right, and all the conservative talking heads would be claiming how terrible/horrible/tyrannical/unAmerican Obama is for doing it, whatever it may be. And I would bet my bottom dollar that most of you know in your hearts that this is absolutely the case, that it simply didn't matter what Obama did about Bergahl, he'd still be hated for it by the Right. It's all politics, period, end of story.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    How about military choppers and Navy fighters?
    You can't invade without boots on the ground. You can't occupy a place without boots on the ground. You can't take over a nation without boots on the ground.

    I love watching liberals cherry pick to fit their ideology. Your statement doesn't disappoint!

    You think it concerns me how well I reflect on other veterans on DP?
    Apparently not, because each and every one of them knows how silly your argument is that we "invaded" Libya.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    You can't invade without boots on the ground. You can't occupy a place without boots on the ground. You can't take over a nation without boots on the ground.
    And the CIA was on the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Apparently not, because each and every one of them knows how silly your argument is that we "invaded" Libya.
    What's sillier is you sitting here denying it. You're entitled to live in your own reality; it's still a free country.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Asks a Truther. If that isn't irony, I dunno what is.

    My claim is backed by facts and statements from Saddam himself.




    I can't believe a Truther would take a shot at me like that. Sometimes internet debate seems like a total waste. I wonder if I'd be better off buying a few cats.
    I guess that means the answer is 'yes'? I do hope that Curveball is not your favorite informant...

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    "attempted assassination of a US president"? Reference, please.
    I'm not terribly surprised that you are unfamiliar with the attempted assassination of GHWB in Kuwait.

    And firing on a coalition aircraft in that nation's airspace does not comprise a clear and present danger to other nations.
    ...in violation of UN sanctions. You really need to get a grasp.

    FYI, Saddam was useful, if Dubya had had the sense to see it. He provided a counterweight to Iran...and when Saddam was gone, guess who took over by proxy in Iraq? It was the real winner of the Iraq war: Iran.
    That counterweight to Iran is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, mostly using material we supplied him in order to "counterweight" Iran. There comes a time when enough is enough. BTW, since your grasp on the history of the region is now suspect, are you aware of Desert Fox and the liberate Iraq act?

    Y'all insisted on invading Iraq...and Iran became all the more powerful because of it.
    and Billary voted for it.
    Last edited by mac; 06-11-14 at 06:34 PM.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Okay, GUY, listen up. If you're a retired senior chief - and I'm taking you at your word that you are - then you KNOW as well as I do that Bergdahl is INNOCENT until he is proven guilty in a court of law...and because of that it was our DUTY to bring him home by whatever means we had at hand. We could swap the five Taliban for him...or we could have risked more lives of Special Forces to get him. But we needed to bring him home. Even GEN McChrystal said the same thing...and you know he's no fan of Obama.
    Listen here, guy, I don't give a rat's ass if you take me at my word or not. Nor do I give a rat's ass that he is legally innocent...at the moment. He's a deserter, and certainly not worth the risk of turning over 5 exceedingly bad actors, who most likely will cause more US and Afghani deaths. In violation of US law, and international law...considering two of them were under indictment for crimes against humanity.

    What's really stupid about this whole brouhaha, Senior, is that nobody on the Right seems to acknowledge the obvious, that if Obama brought him home, Obama's hated for it...but if Obama had left him there, Obama would be hated for that, too. It did not matter what Obama did, he'd be castigated for it by the Right, and all the conservative talking heads would be claiming how terrible/horrible/tyrannical/unAmerican Obama is for doing it, whatever it may be. And I would bet my bottom dollar that most of you know in your hearts that this is absolutely the case, that it simply didn't matter what Obama did about Bergahl, he'd still be hated for it by the Right. It's all politics, period, end of story.
    What's really stupid, Shipmate, is that this occurred. No-one was traded for Jessica Lynch, now, was there? What you are going to find out is that this is simply a ploy to divert attention from the other scandals of the day while emptying out gitmo. Guy, it doesn't take a genius, partisan or not, to see right through that patheticly amatuer smoke and mirror routine.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  9. #509
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I guess that means the answer is 'yes'? I do hope that Curveball is not your favorite informant...
    I'm sorry, but arguing with someone that holds 9/11 was an inside job, regarding geopolitics, is nonsense. There's just no way we'll ever see eye-to-eye. Good day.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-11-14 at 06:45 PM.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yes, I was in the military. I was for a time the Chief Master-at-Arms - equivalent to the shipboard chief of police. I was also assistant legal officer for a time on the same ship. And I know that it is wrong in both the military and civilian worlds to declare someone guilty without first giving them a trial. They are ALWAYS innocent until proven guilty. You can catch the scumbag and know in your heart of hearts that he's guilty, but you cannot allow yourself to proceed as if he's guilty - you MUST proceed with the assumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law. That's in the military AND civilian worlds, guy.

    And that's precisely what that colonel meant. If you've a clue about the military, you'd know that matters like this cannot be decided by what relatively junior enlisted say to the media (one of which, btw, received an other-than-honorable discharge). Why, because false accusations occur. Was he threatened? Was he pressured to leave? WE DO NOT KNOW.

    Again, guy, do you believe in the American tradition of innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?
    You're right. They should move to an immediate article 32. Are you for that?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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