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Thread: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really? Where was the clear and present danger that Iraq posed to America? Especially since they were NOT allied with al-Qaeda?
    Flagrant violation of a decades worth of UN mandates, to start.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Except that the WMD case was "thin", in the words of British Intelligence:

    C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

    ...

    The Defence Secretary said that the US had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in US minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections.
    The Foreign Secretary said he would discuss this with Colin Powell this week. It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force.
    The Attorney-General said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defence, humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation. The first and second could not be the base in this case. Relying on UNSCR 1205 of three years ago would be difficult. The situation might of course change.


    The Downing Street Memo was written in July of 2002, almost eight months before the invasion. Eight months prior, and the Brits already knew that Bush had made up his mind to invade no matter what.
    Tony Blair was for attacking Iraq during the Clinton Administration and joined in with George Bush as well. So did many other American allies also.

    Do you think Barrack Obama would ever get any international backing? The silliness of the 'reset' button, and its complete misinterpretation, is all you need know about the foreign policy of both Obama and Clinton.

    And, by the way, did you ever discover what Obama meant when he told Putin's aide that he could be 'more flexible' after the election? Or has the flexibility already shown itself?

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It's a Truther theory.
    Wow !

    So those were Holograms ??

    Lol....ok

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Wow !

    So those were Holograms ??

    Lol....ok
    That's at about the same level as claiming a single sentence, of OPINION, stated once, is proof that Iraq was a conspiracy - against mountains of evidence otherwise.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Every intelligence agency in the Western world agreed with the assessment because Saddam was, as it turns out, faking a wmd program to keep the Iranian regime at bay.

    But you'll ignore that, right?
    Do you still really believe that fairy tale?

    Yes, we have the government we deserve.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Except that the WMD case was "thin", in the words of British Intelligence:

    C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

    ...

    The Defence Secretary said that the US had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in US minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections.
    The Foreign Secretary said he would discuss this with Colin Powell this week. It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force.
    The Attorney-General said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defence, humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation. The first and second could not be the base in this case. Relying on UNSCR 1205 of three years ago would be difficult. The situation might of course change.


    The Downing Street Memo was written in July of 2002, almost eight months before the invasion. Eight months prior, and the Brits already knew that Bush had made up his mind to invade no matter what.
    The Brits and many americans, including Dubya's first Sec Treasury, O'Neill.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Flagrant violation of a decades worth of UN mandates, to start.
    And they presented a clear and present danger to America how? They didn't.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And they presented a clear and present danger to America how? They didn't.
    Then you must be fully against Obama's Libya invasion where Gaddafi was killed right?

    Can you show me where in the latest War Powers Act, where "clear and present danger" is measure required for military action?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Back to Bergdahl, I've been listening to Sec/Def Hagel. His only justification for the way this was handled was that there simply could not be a chance of any leaked information. That's a rather insulting rationale for not informing key members of both houses.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Yes, conflicting reports coming from "officials" that's senior leadership....responsible to Obama. Do you understand the military officer/President relationship? I'll take the word of his fellow soldiers over the brass and wh any day.

    Didn't you say you were in the military?

    BTW, what do you expect Berghdal to say? Something like..."No, I didn't desert. I was looking for a 7/11 without my weapon...in one of the most dangerous spots in Afghanistan..."

    Gimme a break, bro. At some point you have to move beyond partisanship...like when it gets this stupid.
    Yes, I was in the military. I was for a time the Chief Master-at-Arms - equivalent to the shipboard chief of police. I was also assistant legal officer for a time on the same ship. And I know that it is wrong in both the military and civilian worlds to declare someone guilty without first giving them a trial. They are ALWAYS innocent until proven guilty. You can catch the scumbag and know in your heart of hearts that he's guilty, but you cannot allow yourself to proceed as if he's guilty - you MUST proceed with the assumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law. That's in the military AND civilian worlds, guy.

    And that's precisely what that colonel meant. If you've a clue about the military, you'd know that matters like this cannot be decided by what relatively junior enlisted say to the media (one of which, btw, received an other-than-honorable discharge). Why, because false accusations occur. Was he threatened? Was he pressured to leave? WE DO NOT KNOW.

    Again, guy, do you believe in the American tradition of innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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