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Thread: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

  1. #461
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The invasion of Iraq? Yes, it was - that was his plan all along, even before he got elected the first time. He wanted to do what daddy wouldn't do.

    I know that sounds crude...but it's true. And so many of us - myself included at the time - got sucked into believing him.
    Wow, that guy must have been a genius...I mean, fooling all you smaht folk n all.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    FYI, gluts normally have nothing to do with government. Try looking up gluts that have occurred in the past and see how much governments didn't have to do with them. Gluts are those situations when supply is much greater than demand, and occur when there is significant overproduction or significant decrease in demand. Most gluts are minor in the macroeconomic view (though some are certainly not - see the real estate gluts caused by the "Great Depression" and the "Great Recession") and there's many different causes of overproduction or decrease in demand, and sometimes those are indeed the fault of the government...but more often than not, it's simply a case of overproduction.

    In the case of oil, however, a glut due to overproduction would not be a good thing at all. I despise Big Oil, but if we allow that to happen which would cause the price of oil to nosedive even temporarily, that kind of macroeconomic shock can cause significant instability in the market...and not the good kind of instability.

    And FYI, we aren't the USSR. I know that comes as a shock to you....
    Yes, gluts can have everything to do with govt. Like over-production of agricultural products (US) and over production of industrial products (USSR). Both due to govt interference.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Um, did you show where he renounced his citizenship? Maybe you did, and I could well have missed it. I know this might sound strange, but I do have a life away from this forum. I was up to 0345 this morning cranking out a research paper. It wasn't fun.

    But anyway, did you show where he renounced his citizenship?
    Yes, I did. You conveniently...missed...it.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Wow, that guy must have been a genius...I mean, fooling all you smaht folk n all.
    Its a well-known phenomenon that in times of real crisis, people fall into line with the leader - partisan bickering is strongly diminished.

    Think about it this way: are Germans an intelligent, well-educated people? Generally speaking, yes. So how did Hitler fool them? Goering said it in the clearest way I can imagine:

    "Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

    And he's absolutely right. Add to that the fact that we WERE attacked on 9/11...and most of us (including me) were suddenly ready to believe almost anything we were told.

    Were we told we were under attack? Check.
    Were the peacemakers denounced and accused of exposing the country to danger? Check.

    And so support for the unprovoked invasion was assured.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Its a well-known phenomenon that in times of real crisis, people fall into line with the leader - partisan bickering is strongly diminished.

    Think about it this way: are Germans an intelligent, well-educated people? Generally speaking, yes. So how did Hitler fool them? Goering said it in the clearest way I can imagine:

    "Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

    And he's absolutely right. Add to that the fact that we WERE attacked on 9/11...and most of us (including me) were suddenly ready to believe almost anything we were told.

    Were we told we were under attack? Check.
    Were the peacemakers denounced and accused of exposing the country to danger? Check.

    And so support for the unprovoked invasion was assured.
    The invasion was far from unprovoked, bad timing and faulty intelligence aside. But, it would seem that the dunce from Texas is not only really smaht, but apparently, quite charismatic, no?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Yes, I did. You conveniently...missed...it.
    Dude. Do you not have a life away from the computer? I don't know - maybe you do, maybe you don't. I do...and I make no crude assumptions about other people.

    You should learn to refrain from making assumptions about people - that's how prejudice takes hold.

    Now, as to your claim that he renounced his citizenship. It took about ten minutes of scrolling through each and every page and I found it back in comment #327 (IIRC)...where it referenced this article. You saw the parts where he apparently left a note...but did you read ALL of the article?

    Apparently not, because the article also said this:

    The New York Times was also told by officials that the soldier left behind a note spelling out his disenchantment and his desire to walk away to start a new life.
    But there are conflicting reports as other US army officials who have read the original classified 2010 investigation report into his case said the document did not refer to a note.


    Do you believe in the AMERICAN judicial tradition of "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law"? Do you? Do you really? Because you have shown that you were ABSOLUTELY SURE that he had renounced his citizenship...but now, using the SAME article you used as 'proof', we can see that there may very well be reasonable doubt.

    Bergdahl obviously wasn't liked by his unit for whatever reason. Was that alleged - ALLEGED - note written by Bergdahl himself? Or was it placed there by people in his unit who were ticked off at him? We don't know. YOU don't know.

    And the most pertinent paragraph of all in that entire article you referenced is this one:

    “There have been several looks into the circumstances surrounding his disappearance but we’ve never publicly said anything, primarily because we haven’t had a chance to speak to Sgt Bergdahl himself,” Col Warren said.

    "Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." There's a reason for that judicial tradition, and that Army colonel just gave another example of upholding that tradition. Bergdahl might be as guilty as sin and if so, he will richly deserve what's coming to him. But - according to AMERICAN judicial tradition, he is at this moment INNOCENT and will remain INNOCENT until proven guilty in a court of law.

    So...NO, you did not 'prove' that Bergdahl renounced his citizenship. All you did was go on your assumptions.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The invasion was far from unprovoked, bad timing and faulty intelligence aside. But, it would seem that the dunce from Texas is not only really smaht, but apparently, quite charismatic, no?
    Really? Where was the clear and present danger that Iraq posed to America? Especially since they were NOT allied with al-Qaeda?
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really? Where was the clear and present danger that Iraq posed to America? Especially since they were NOT allied with al-Qaeda?
    Perhaps you should ask that question of Hillary Clinton or John Kerry seeing as how both of them endorsed and voted for the invasion (along with numerous other democrats)

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Perhaps you should ask that question of Hillary Clinton or John Kerry seeing as how both of them endorsed and voted for the invasion (along with numerous other democrats)
    Did you not see Goering's quote?

    "Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

    And if you'd look it up, you'd find that our CONGRESS - including Hillary and Kerry - were fed faulty intel...intel that the Bush admin KNEW was questionable (though they did not know for sure that it was false).
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #470
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The invasion of Iraq? Yes, it was - that was his plan all along, even before he got elected the first time. He wanted to do what daddy wouldn't do.

    I know that sounds crude...but it's true. And so many of us - myself included at the time - got sucked into believing him.
    I love your fascist quote. Or is it socialist?:

    We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. "Necessitous men are not free men." People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt, January 11, 1944

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