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Thread: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

  1. #411
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The decision for war preceded the WMD issue, which was simply the lowest common denominator around which support for the war could be built. That does not mean, however, that the administration did not honestly believe there were WMD. The most that can be said is that they were predisposed to believe, and were therefore less rigorous than they should have been in testing the evidence.
    Well said. I can't argue against that.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well "Guy", if you're willing to ignore centuries of radical Islamic marching toward caliphate, to ignore the Koran calling for the death of infidels, and the despotism of Islamic rule toward the oppression of their own people then your perception is misguided and your loyalty misplaced.
    It doesn't matter if YOU think their perception is misguided, their loyalty misplaced. YOUR opinion - and mine - does not matter. What matters is what THEY think - it's THEIR nation, THEIR culture, THEIR people, THEIR way of life. We can't just go in and say "do things the way we say you should" at the point of a gun. It never, ever works that way.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That link means nothing and it seems you never read it. No WMD were found post invaasion. What does that mean to you?
    Precisely. No WMD's were found post-invasion. But the decision to invade no matter what was already made by Bush.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Foreign soldiers called Al Qaeda were already on Afghan soil and being harbored by the Taliban. The Taliban were given ample opportunity to release these terrorists into American custody but chose not to.
    If we harbored someone the Russians felt was a terrorist - and could prove it - and we refused to give him up because of some reason, and they decided to invade, would we care one whit that they were only invading because we refused to give up that terrorist?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Actually, it IS accurate - we are currently a net oil exporter. And have our oil prices fallen as a result?

    No.

    I rest my case.
    I stand corrected...

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Just as a reminder of what this thread is all about, our involvement in Afghanistan had nothing to do with WMD. It had everything to do with radical militant Islamofacists determined to destroy the infidels with the ultimate goal of bringing the whole world under the authority of Allah. It had everything to do with those same Islamofacists hijacking four American airliners, filled with innocent passengers, and flying three of them into heavily populated buildings with a net death toll of almost 3,000 people. The fourth was most likely headed for the U.S. capital building or the White House.

    Militant Islam is not content to restrain their activities to their country, their culture, their territory. For many decades now it has been the primary exporter of terrorism, death, destruction, and mayhem throughout Africa, Asia, Europe, and now the North American continent. And they are determined to bring the whole world under the authority of Allah, no matter what they have to do and no matter how long it takes. They have unlimited time and apparently unlimited hate and conviction. And they certainly laugh and immensely enjoy how successful they are the more they can force us to change our lifestyles out of fear of them and what they might do.

    That makes Bergdahl's motives and actions much more of a big deal, most especially if it turns out that he had less than noble motives in walking off the base in the first place, and if some of his comrades were put at higher risk, were wounded and/or killed because he did.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Free flow of oil in a world market

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Um, we already are. We're pumping out more oil than ever before, thanks to fracking (and the swarms of (relatively minor) earthquakes that come with it).
    Any drilling we are doing is despite government interference.

    Thing is, the way the global oil markets are structured, NONE - repeat, NONE - of that oil we're pumping out is reserved for American use. ALL of it is considered 'fungible' - it's put on the global market, and so we bid on and buy what's cheapest on the market, without any concern of where it came from.
    We can disagree about the impact of significantly increasing our oil production. I believe our ability to use all of our resources could, and probably would, drive oil prices down. Your mileage (ahem) may vary.

    Which is why "drill baby drill" was so silly - it Does Not Matter how much we drill, because it's ALL on the global market, and because of this, we will never, ever (as long as the wealthiest industry in human history survives) be "energy independent" as long as we depend on oil.
    Then let's prepare to remain in those parts of the world that supply a large part of the world's oil.
    We can also agree to disagree on the government's massive interference wilt oil production along with the fascistic crony capitalism involved with the president's bundlers. Get the government out of the way. We will all be better off.

    Never. It's flatly impossible, because we have to buy from the global market, and not from the oil we're drilling on our own land...even though we're currently producing more oil than we're using.
    That is not relevant. What is relevant is the ability to impact the price of oil with or without military forces.

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    Making a weak case to not drill for any more oil in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Actually, it IS accurate - we are currently a net oil exporter. And have our oil prices fallen as a result?

    No.

    I rest my case.
    It may be a very weak case. From your link the net export was 450k barrels per day. Latin America alone uses about 6 million barrels a day. Our exports are a very small portion of the total world wide demand for oil. Let's see what happens when we account for 20% of the world's daily oil supply.

    Isn't the reason why we were able to export oil is because of Obama's anti-industrial policies. Our demand for oil dropped by two million barrels per day because of Obama's meddling.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    I stand corrected...
    Your name "pragmatic" is well chosen. Pragmatism is a real virtue...which is why unlike most of my fellow progressives, I'm a strong supporter of nuclear power - it's a pragmatic choice.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #420
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Saddam Hussein did little to discourage the idea that he had WMD because it gave him more power and prestige within the Arab world and could also be used as a threat against any invading force. That anyone would want a genocidal madman like Saddam to remain in power says a great deal about how far leftists will go to demonstrate their deep-rooted feelings of anti Americanism.

    Of course every world leader was 'predisposed to believe' he had WMD, as the record clearly indicates.
    Indeed. The basic US mistake was to mirror-image Saddam. Just because proving to us he did not have WMD was our most important concern, we assumed that was most important to Saddam too. That was not the case. Most important to Saddam was giving the Iranians the idea that he DID possess WMD. We misread his deception of the Iranians as proof our fears were valid.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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