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Thread: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

  1. #231
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy McNasty View Post
    I think most people would agree with that sentiment if not with the particulars of the trade that brought him home. Now that he is here, it looks as if he will face the music for his actions. As well he should and it looks like his own farewell letter will be quite material in the matter.

    Bowe Bergdahl left letter at Afghan base saying he'd left 'to start new life' | Mail Online
    Yeah, he needs to face the music if what is said was done, even if we get'em so that he gets thrown to the gallows, we bring him home. I hear allot of words to the contrary. So far as the prison swap, I've got to believe while symbolically it definitely is a catastrophe, practically steps were put in place which would allow a drone strike on their sorry asses to be eminent.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Before we invaded, who were we talking to, to get Afghanistan to turn over bin Laden? The Taliban. Apparently at the time, we thought they were the government for all practical intents and purposes...and so did they.



    I'm sure a lot of Iranians did like us...but we'd be fools to assume that most do, especially after what we did in the Iran/Iraq war.

    And I really am not concerned about those five Taliban - if there's 14 tribes that really are against them (and are you really sure that's the case, or is that simply what we're told?), then those five shouldn't make much of a difference. What concerns me much more is that we brought our soldier home (even if he's going to be court-martialed). What we did is very much in line with what we've done before, going back all the way to the Revolutionary War.

    That, and the fact that the Taliban isn't firmly in charge of an organized nation, complete with uniforms for their soldiers and an official flag and Olympic team and whatnot, does NOT mean we can't swap prisoners with them...especially considering the increasingly decentralized nature of organizations in the modern world. That last phrase is important - these days, it's becoming much easier to have a tightly-run intercontinental organization. Refusing to deal with such on grounds that they don't possess the classical paradigm of a nation is naive.
    [/QUOTE]


    Not really, The Taliban and their other 3 allied troops just controlled the area where AQ was training and given safe sancturary.

    As for Iran you were talking 1950’s. Up and until the time Jimmy Carter let the Shah be over thrown we got along just fine with most of the Iranian people.

    I'm sure a lot of Iranians did like us...but we'd be fools to assume that most do, especially after what we did in the Iran/Iraq war.

    I suppose there was a valid reason the present Afghan government wasn’t told we were releasing these 5 hard core leaders. I can’t say for sure, but I suppose they would have been adamantly against it and shed some rain on the parade.

    Interesting that you are not concerned at all what these 5 hard core leaders will do. I am not that concerned either, I suppose we will take care of them in due time if the need arises. Just like we took care of 30% of other releases from Gitmo that returned to the battlefield. But with these 5 back with the Taliban it probably does make it easier for them to dispose of the current government of Afghanistan. But none of know what will happen in the future. This trade may be just the tip of the Iceberg in peace negotiation with the Taliban, who knows. There are so many things done behind the people’s back, most with good reason. I know.

    As for failing to deal with them as a nation, you brought that up stating we made swaps with other nations, I just tried to let you know why most people consider the Taliban a terrorist organization and not a nation. I do know that 14 tribes which now consist of the present government do consider them a terrorist organization.

    I one is aware of all or most possible repercussions and weighed them against the short term gain, then I have no problem with it personally. If you think there is an uproar now, wait and see what happens if the Taliban kidnaps another American and tries to exchange him/her for more prisoners at Gitmo. This may or may not happen and I hope part of the deal for the release of the five was the Taliban’s word they would not kidnap or capture any more Americans.

    As for Bergdahl, we knew he walked off his post. He made a decision to leave, it was his decision. I also heard today on the news according to a high ranking defense official this was the second time he walked off. I suppose we should wait until it is verified. But most military types have very little sympathy for Bergdahl. It does seem most of the sympathy and desire to get him in a swap comes from the civilian sector. We shall see.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    This is just another big "Screw you, America" by the Obama administration. You can't reasonably argue that they didn't know that they were trading 5 top level terrorists for a deserter. Why this guy? Why did this have to be done? There have been so many other prisoners much more worthy of a trade than this guy. Seems to me they had another agenda.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The question isn't do we bring him home or not (even if it may be to stuff him in jail for the rest of his life) the question is how it was done and at what price.
    I've heard pissing and moaning about bringing him home, a lot of it coming from the Right side of the isle. Post #231, I elaborated on my position.

    The thing we have to recognize is that Obama has always been one to forgo custom and etiquette. It shouldn't surprise anyone that he paid little heed to the symbolic nature of the swap. What concerns me more so is if he actually had the presence of mind to make these criminals easily removable. His incompetence on any number of given issues tells me no.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I've heard pissing and moaning about bringing him home, a lot of it coming from the Right side of the isle. Post #231, I elaborated on my position.

    The thing we have to recognize is that Obama has always been one to forgo custom and etiquette.
    Etiquette? In case it's not etiquette but the law he signed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    It shouldn't surprise anyone that he paid little heed to the symbolic nature of the swap. What concerns me more so is if he actually had the presence of mind to make these criminals easily removable. His incompetence on any number of given issues tells me no.
    The problem with Obama is he pays little heed to anything he doesn't agree with. The nature of the swap I don't disagree with. However, that doesn't excuse Obama from having to follow the law like everyone else, and I tend to disagree with these 5 Taliban leaders who were let go, as the decision was in my view incompetent and reckless.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I did my research. His soldier critics claim that he was suspected of desertion and TREASON shortly after he disappeared. How does that translate into two promotions?
    He wasn't listed as desertion, rather as M.I.A ... doesn't change what he did. Remember, what uncle Sam giveth, uncle Sam can taketh.

    I would never address that P.O.S as sergeant. He's a disgrace.
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate View Post
    I have a feeling this was more of a political "know soldier left behind" kind of thing rather then a balanced trade but I don't know
    I think that's "No soldier left behind"...
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Etiquette? In case it's not etiquette but the law he signed.



    The problem with Obama is he pays little heed to anything he doesn't agree with. The nature of the swap I don't disagree with. However, that doesn't excuse Obama from having to follow the law like everyone else, and I tend to disagree with these 5 Taliban leaders who were let go, as the decision was in my view incompetent and reckless.
    I was speaking to his pattern of behavior...

    I agree with all you're saying but being responsible for enforcing the law means you get to break it, especially when you're protected by the Senate.

    (don't confuse this with agreement of action.)

    What I don't think your getting is that what I'm saying is did he just let those 5 go free and clear with a pat on the bum and a "No hard feeling, eh?"

    Or

    Did he at some point stick a RFID chip up their asses so that once free -- unbeknownst to them -- they would lead our Intelligence community to other conspirators and if the need arises, like when they get all the intel possible, they send in a drone strike zeroed in on the RFID signal and BOOM! No more bad guys?

    One is irresponsible the other not so much.

    (and yes we do have the technology to do that)

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Doesn't matter. We swapped North Koreans and Vietnamese for our POW's in the past, and their nations had killed a heck of a lot more of our troops than the Taliban had. We swapped POW's with Germany at the end of WWI. The Union and the South swapped POW's many times. We swapped POW's with England in both the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. And in ALL these cases, the enemy had killed FAR more of our troops than the Taliban had...and in the cases of the Civil War, the War of 1812, and the Revolutionary War, these presented an existential danger to America itself. And then there's the small matter of Reagan trading 1500 missiles to Iran for American hostages.

    So...NO, I can't think of a single other president who would not have authorized the same thing.

    On top of all that, we had real concern about his physical health, which seemed to be deteriorating. Again, whatever he did or did not do, it is American tradition that we bring him home - and if we had allowed him to die, then we would have broken that tradition...and of course the Right would have had a field day with that one, too.
    We bring home Americans. Bergdahl renounced his citizenship.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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  10. #240
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Not really, The Taliban and their other 3 allied troops just controlled the area where AQ was training and given safe sancturary.[/QUOTE]

    Then why was the Bush administration talking with them at all?

    As for Iran you were talking 1950’s. Up and until the time Jimmy Carter let the Shah be over thrown we got along just fine with most of the Iranian people.
    It's been sixty years since then, and thirty years since the Iran/Iraq war that was worse than any war America's ever fought in terms of deaths.

    If such had been done to America by a foreign power, do you really think we would have forgiven - much less forgotten - by then? Remember, there are many alive in Iran today whose parents, siblings, or children died in that war where we gave so much more assistance to the other side.

    I suppose there was a valid reason the present Afghan government wasn’t told we were releasing these 5 hard core leaders. I can’t say for sure, but I suppose they would have been adamantly against it and shed some rain on the parade.
    And I really couldn't care less. What I care about is getting our soldiers home.

    Interesting that you are not concerned at all what these 5 hard core leaders will do. I am not that concerned either, I suppose we will take care of them in due time if the need arises. Just like we took care of 30% of other releases from Gitmo that returned to the battlefield. But with these 5 back with the Taliban it probably does make it easier for them to dispose of the current government of Afghanistan. But none of know what will happen in the future. This trade may be just the tip of the Iceberg in peace negotiation with the Taliban, who knows. There are so many things done behind the people’s back, most with good reason. I know.

    As for failing to deal with them as a nation, you brought that up stating we made swaps with other nations, I just tried to let you know why most people consider the Taliban a terrorist organization and not a nation. I do know that 14 tribes which now consist of the present government do consider them a terrorist organization.

    I one is aware of all or most possible repercussions and weighed them against the short term gain, then I have no problem with it personally. If you think there is an uproar now, wait and see what happens if the Taliban kidnaps another American and tries to exchange him/her for more prisoners at Gitmo. This may or may not happen and I hope part of the deal for the release of the five was the Taliban’s word they would not kidnap or capture any more Americans.

    As for Bergdahl, we knew he walked off his post. He made a decision to leave, it was his decision. I also heard today on the news according to a high ranking defense official this was the second time he walked off. I suppose we should wait until it is verified. But most military types have very little sympathy for Bergdahl. It does seem most of the sympathy and desire to get him in a swap comes from the civilian sector. We shall see.
    Why do you think I feel the least sympathy for a deserter? This is NOT about Bergdahl! And it's not about letting those five Taliban free. This is about upholding the tradition we've held for 238 years that no one gets left behind.

    Why is it a big freaking deal? Because the tradition that we leave no one behind is a not-much-short-of-sacred promise we give to our men and women in uniform. NO ONE GETS LEFT BEHIND. If they start thinking that yeah, we might leave them behind, and if that's backed up with our actions like the Right apparently wanted us to do with Bergdahl, that directly affects morale - they're not so willing to stand their ground, and might be more willing to rout. On the other hand, if they KNOW that we've got their backs, if they KNOW that no matter what, we're coming for them, if they KNOW that they won't be left behind until they die, and if that's backed up with our actions like we just did with Bergdahl...that's a heck of a benefit for morale. It means the troops know that they can trust America to come get them.

    Like I said, it's NOT about Bergdahl - it's about TRADITION, and how that tradition directly benefits our troops in the field. Is this really so difficult to grasp?
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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