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Thread: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

  1. #221
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yeah? And the Israelis swapped 1027 Palestinian POW's for one of theirs.



    Y'know, this may come as a shock to you, but what a terrorist does in Afghanistan does NOT present a clear and present danger to America. The ONLY reason we went there in the first place was to get bin Laden. The Taliban - who were NOT terrorists, but who were the GOVERNMENT (if a terrible one) of that nation - were willing to hand him over if he would be tried somewhere other than America. We refused to make that promise, they refused to hand him over, and we invaded. The Taliban were not terrorists...but they were holding a terrorist. And when we landed, the Taliban did exactly what we would have done in their shoes.

    In other words, in the Taliban's eyes, WE invaded THEIR nation. In their eyes, they are the patriots, and we're the invaders. They're not attacking us because "they hate freedom" or "because they want to spread Islam". They're attacking us because WE are in THEIR nation. Why the heck do you think that Afghanistan's been called "the graveyard of empires"?

    Oh, wait - I forgot - it's verboten on the Right to ever consider that the other guy might actually be trying to do what he thinks is the right thing...everybody who doesn't do what the Right thinks they should do is a socialist/marxist/Nazi/communist (and sometimes Kenyan) terrorist out to destroy America because...satan!



    Look, if you want to raise hell about creating more terrorists, go hold the guys to account for TORTURING the Iraqi POW's. THAT had to create thousands more insurgents and terrorists...just as if our soldiers had been tortured by and with the approva of, say, the Iranian government, what would we as a nation have done? You know doggone well what we would have done. Yet we expect them to be okay when we torture THEIR people?

    We did what we have always done - we brought all our soldiers home. Anything less than that is unacceptable.
    Ok...

    -You've covered the view that we never should have invaded Afghanistan.

    -You've covered the part about the poor Taliban just wanting to defend their homeland.

    -You've covered the part about how "they don't hate us for our freedom they just want us to leave them alone".

    -You've covered the part about "Obama's a Marxist" claims that I never made.

    -You've covered the part about how we torture prisoners at GITMO

    ...Got it.


    Got any more far left partisan drivel you'd like to deposit? I hope not because any more and normal people are going to start to puke all over the place.

  2. #222
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    What's his twitter handle?
    Edit: @CodyFNfootball

    Read what he wrote on May 26th:

    "Is there any mistreatment worse than sending the US military into a violent and unstable part of the world to conduct a search operation that is in no way connected to the defense of the United States? Feeling sorry for somebody is not a sufficient basis for sending American men and women into harm's way."

    Jeez, its like he knew Bergdahl was going to be released and concocted this story! You've cracked the case!
    He's not the only soldier speaking out.

    His Sergeant is also speaking out and is saying this guy definitely deserted.

    I think the lefts politicizing this issue is disgusting.

  3. #223
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Do you know who comprised the government of Afghanistan when we invaded? It was the Taliban. Yes, they were a terrible government...but they were still the government. And they reacted - and are still reacting - as any government would when the nation is invaded. We can call them 'terrorist' all day long, but they WERE the Afghan government when we invaded.

    In their eyes, they are patriots...and if you can muster the ability to put yourself in their shoes, to see things the way they do, you can't really blame them. But what they intend to do is of SECONDARY importance - the most important thing to do is to bring all our soldiers home.

    Here's something else for you to think about: Iran. They're a terrorist nation full of people who hate America and freedom, right? So...if you were Iranian, what would you think of a nation that deposed your democratically-elected leader (because America wanted her corporations to continue to have access to Iranian oil) and put Shah Reza Pahlavi in his place? That's what we did in the 1950's. If you were Iranian, how long would it take you to "get over" that? And that's not all - during the Iran/Iraq war, yes, we sold stuff to both sides, but Iraq got the lion's share of the aid, including intel and other logistics aid. Millions of Iranians died in that war...and that was less than 30 years ago.

    How would you, an Iranian, feel towards America, knowing what we did to them in the 1950's, and how we helped Iraq kill millions of them in the 1980's?

    And Americans wonder why they hate us?

    One would think that if we had brains, we'd get all our troops out of Afghanistan, and set all the people in Gitmo free (that place is a perversion of American values!).

    BTW, one more thing - do you know the real reason why we're in Afghanistan? It has nothing to do with Afghanistan...and everything to do with the nuclear arsenal next door in Pakistan. If you'll recall, just a few years ago an al-Qaeda-led force got within 40 miles of the capital before they were defeated. That's the real reason why we're still there...because if we get all our troops out of there, then al-Qaeda has a logistics base that Pakistan can't get to...and if Pakistan were to fall to al-Qaeda (or a similar group), THEN we're going to have a real problem on our hands.
    In reality the Taliban were one of 18 tribes which with the help of 3 other tribes were trying to take rule over the remaining 14 tribes. The remaining 14 tribes created the Northern Alliance to fight the Taliban and its other 3 tribes. Afghanistan has had a long history of the different tribes ruling their own little area of Afghanistan with no central government to speak of. Most Afghans never even heard of Kabul let alone been there. The Taliban made Kandahar its home base. The Talban did gain recognition of three states, Pakistan, Saudi Ariba and the United Arab Emirates, no other country or nation recognized Taliban as the government of Afghanistan

    Taliban patriots, only to 4 of the 18 tribes, not those of the tribes of the Northern Alliance.

    As for Iran, the people there really liked us and we had bases there under the shah. What a lot of Iranians back then didn’t like was the shah trying to westernize their country. Now you take this constructively or continue to rant, it is up to you. But what I did in my previous post is try to explain to you why most Americans do not like this deal and along with the Northern Alliance, 14 tribes who still think the Taliban is a terrorist organization.


    Afghanistan under the Taliban and the Northern Alliance.\

    afghanistan.jpg
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  4. #224
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    Ok...

    -You've covered the view that we never should have invaded Afghanistan.

    -You've covered the part about the poor Taliban just wanting to defend their homeland.

    -You've covered the part about how "they don't hate us for our freedom they just want us to leave them alone".

    -You've covered the part about "Obama's a Marxist" claims that I never made.

    -You've covered the part about how we torture prisoners at GITMO

    ...Got it.


    Got any more far left partisan drivel you'd like to deposit? I hope not because any more and normal people are going to start to puke all over the place.
    Did I say we should never have invaded? Did I say that? No, I did not. What I am TELLING you is that what YOU and the rest of the Right is doing is you aren't even attempting to understand your enemy...

    ...and Sun Tzu said it best:

    If you know others and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know others but know yourself, you win one and lose one; if you do not know others and do not know yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.

    You must know your enemy. Y'all not only don't know your enemy, you apparently don't even see the need to know your enemy. It's just like when the Muslim scholars tried to explain to Dubya about the Sunni and Shi'a schism (which is like the old Catholic/protestant schism but on steroids), he said something to the effect of "What's the difference - they're all Muslim."

    And that, sir, is why we've been in such a mess in the Middle East - y'all haven't even tried to understand your enemy.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  5. #225
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    In reality the Taliban were one of 18 tribes which with the help of 3 other tribes were trying to take rule over the remaining 14 tribes. The remaining 14 tribes created the Northern Alliance to fight the Taliban and its other 3 tribes. Afghanistan has had a long history of the different tribes ruling their own little area of Afghanistan with no central government to speak of. Most Afghans never even heard of Kabul let alone been there. The Taliban made Kandahar its home base. The Talban did gain recognition of three states, Pakistan, Saudi Ariba and the United Arab Emirates, no other country or nation recognized Taliban as the government of Afghanistan

    Taliban patriots, only to 4 of the 18 tribes, not those of the tribes of the Northern Alliance.
    Before we invaded, who were we talking to, to get Afghanistan to turn over bin Laden? The Taliban. Apparently at the time, we thought they were the government for all practical intents and purposes...and so did they.

    As for Iran, the people there really liked us and we had bases there under the shah. What a lot of Iranians back then didn’t like was the shah trying to westernize their country. Now you take this constructively or continue to rant, it is up to you. But what I did in my previous post is try to explain to you why most Americans do not like this deal and along with the Northern Alliance, 14 tribes who still think the Taliban is a terrorist organization.
    I'm sure a lot of Iranians did like us...but we'd be fools to assume that most do, especially after what we did in the Iran/Iraq war.

    And I really am not concerned about those five Taliban - if there's 14 tribes that really are against them (and are you really sure that's the case, or is that simply what we're told?), then those five shouldn't make much of a difference. What concerns me much more is that we brought our soldier home (even if he's going to be court-martialed). What we did is very much in line with what we've done before, going back all the way to the Revolutionary War.

    That, and the fact that the Taliban isn't firmly in charge of an organized nation, complete with uniforms for their soldiers and an official flag and Olympic team and whatnot, does NOT mean we can't swap prisoners with them...especially considering the increasingly decentralized nature of organizations in the modern world. That last phrase is important - these days, it's becoming much easier to have a tightly-run intercontinental organization. Refusing to deal with such on grounds that they don't possess the classical paradigm of a nation is naive.

    [/QUOTE]
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Deserter or not. The man is an American. We bring him home. Regardless what we do with him when he gets here, we bring him home.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Deserter or not. The man is an American. We bring him home. Regardless what we do with him when he gets here, we bring him home.
    I think most people would agree with that sentiment if not with the particulars of the trade that brought him home. Now that he is here, it looks as if he will face the music for his actions. As well he should and it looks like his own farewell letter will be quite material in the matter.

    Bowe Bergdahl left letter at Afghan base saying he'd left 'to start new life' | Mail Online

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Did I say we should never have invaded? Did I say that? No, I did not. What I am TELLING you is that what YOU and the rest of the Right is doing is you aren't even attempting to understand your enemy...

    ...and Sun Tzu said it best:

    If you know others and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know others but know yourself, you win one and lose one; if you do not know others and do not know yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.

    You must know your enemy. Y'all not only don't know your enemy, you apparently don't even see the need to know your enemy. It's just like when the Muslim scholars tried to explain to Dubya about the Sunni and Shi'a schism (which is like the old Catholic/protestant schism but on steroids), he said something to the effect of "What's the difference - they're all Muslim."

    And that, sir, is why we've been in such a mess in the Middle East - y'all haven't even tried to understand your enemy.
    No, what you are doing is attempting to characterize ME as a part of a group which you define as "the right" and then attack the group. It's a farce and you know it.

    Never once did I make this ideological. You did. You did so because you know that this was a boneheaded deal and the only way you can defend Obama for making it is to attempt to turn it into an ideological pissing match.

    I'm not having any of it.

  9. #229
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    No, what you are doing is attempting to characterize ME as a part of a group which you define as "the right" and then attack the group. It's a farce and you know it.

    Never once did I make this ideological. You did. You did so because you know that this was a boneheaded deal and the only way you can defend Obama for making it is to attempt to turn it into an ideological pissing match.

    I'm not having any of it.
    Hm? Really? You post this: "Got any more far left partisan drivel you'd like to deposit? I hope not because any more and normal people are going to start to puke all over the place."

    ...and you get ticked off because I accuse you of being part of the Right?

    Guy, maybe you disagree with the Right on certain things - but are you assuming that I never disagree with the Left? Look at my chosen name: "Glen Contrarian". Do you think that 'Contrarian' is there just for the hell of it? Yeah, I call myself 'progressive'...but you would be better advised not to assume that I'm some kind of talking-points-repeat-bot.

    I am retired Navy - I give a damn about my fellow military, even the ones who did really stupid things like Bergdahl did. In this case I am defending Obama's actions because his actions were the right thing to do. We followed our national TRADITION. Maybe the tradition of "leave no one behind no matter what" doesn't mean that much to you, but it sure as hell does to me.

    Here's something that a retired Navy warrant officer wrote - it's a truly epic ass-chewing for all those who wanted to just leave Bergdahl there. Maybe you've spent a couple decades or more in the military. If you did, even if you disagree with him, you'll enjoy it as only career military can.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Deserter or not. The man is an American. We bring him home. Regardless what we do with him when he gets here, we bring him home.
    The question isn't do we bring him home or not (even if it may be to stuff him in jail for the rest of his life) the question is how it was done and at what price.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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