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Thread: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    If he hadnt deserted, men would not have been sent to find him, and died in the process.

    Nothing wonky about that logic.
    Here's what his fellow soldiers have to say. WATCH: Fellow Soldiers Continue to Detail Bergdahl's Betrayal and Desertion - Katie Pavlich

    Stupid people all over America will be cheering.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    If he hadnt deserted, men would not have been sent to find him, and died in the process.

    Nothing wonky about that logic.
    Whether or not they died in the process is unknown. I've yet to see substantiation. However, there is no direct link of responsibility. Bergdahl was unarmed and he cannot control the Taliban.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Isn't she paid to lie, afterall she works for Obama.
    Yes but after her experiences she should recommend to her boss that he pick someone else for the task since her credibility is already in the toilet.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Doesn't matter. We swapped North Koreans and Vietnamese for our POW's in the past, and their nations had killed a heck of a lot more of our troops than the Taliban had. We swapped POW's with Germany at the end of WWI. The Union and the South swapped POW's many times. We swapped POW's with England in both the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. And in ALL these cases, the enemy had killed FAR more of our troops than the Taliban had...and in the cases of the Civil War, the War of 1812, and the Revolutionary War, these presented an existential danger to America itself. And then there's the small matter of Reagan trading 1500 missiles to Iran for American hostages.

    So...NO, I can't think of a single other president who would not have authorized the same thing.

    On top of all that, we had real concern about his physical health, which seemed to be deteriorating. Again, whatever he did or did not do, it is American tradition that we bring him home - and if we had allowed him to die, then we would have broken that tradition...and of course the Right would have had a field day with that one, too.
    Glen I think the reason so many are against this deal is the Taliban isn’t looked at as a government or country as England, Germany, the Union or Confederate governments, the North Vietnamese government etc, the Taliban is looked at through most Americans eyes as a terrorist organization, not a country or a government. Most Americans would be shocked that the Taliban has been declared a terrorist organization by the state department if they found out they haven’t. Even the Taliban we captured were classified as detainees and not POW’s. So in reality the swap was one POW for 5 detainees. If the Taliban was a country or a government I do not think you would see such an uproar over this deal. In most people’s minds it was not POW’s that were swapped, but one American hostage for 5 Taliban hard core leaders whom we had detained, detainees.

    As for what president would make this deal, just go back two years when Panetta was Secretary of Defense and we were offered the same deal. Panetta turned it down, I assume with this president’s blessing. I doubt Panetta would have made that decision on his own. So your answer is Obama.

    As to whether this deal was good or bad, the future will tell. If these five rejoin the fight and go back to killing Americans and our allies or if now the Taliban start kidnapping more Americans for future prisoners trades, we will know it was a bad deal. But if nothing happens, these fears do not come to pass, then it was a good deal. I do not think one can argue today whether this deal is good or bad, no one knows for sure until time passes and we see the repercussions from this deal.

    As for me, I want to know what happened in the last two years that would make the president turn down this deal then, but now accept it. I have a sneaky suspicion that there is a whole lot more going on here than just a prisoner swap.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    It was a 5 to 1 deal. If you want to look at it in terms of what we received for what we gave up I'll ask just one question.
    Yeah? And the Israelis swapped 1027 Palestinian POW's for one of theirs.

    Who is more likely to suffer consequences in the aftermath of this deal? The Taliban for giving us back our one soldier or us for sending the Taliban the five guys who we held prisoner?
    Y'know, this may come as a shock to you, but what a terrorist does in Afghanistan does NOT present a clear and present danger to America. The ONLY reason we went there in the first place was to get bin Laden. The Taliban - who were NOT terrorists, but who were the GOVERNMENT (if a terrible one) of that nation - were willing to hand him over if he would be tried somewhere other than America. We refused to make that promise, they refused to hand him over, and we invaded. The Taliban were not terrorists...but they were holding a terrorist. And when we landed, the Taliban did exactly what we would have done in their shoes.

    In other words, in the Taliban's eyes, WE invaded THEIR nation. In their eyes, they are the patriots, and we're the invaders. They're not attacking us because "they hate freedom" or "because they want to spread Islam". They're attacking us because WE are in THEIR nation. Why the heck do you think that Afghanistan's been called "the graveyard of empires"?

    Oh, wait - I forgot - it's verboten on the Right to ever consider that the other guy might actually be trying to do what he thinks is the right thing...everybody who doesn't do what the Right thinks they should do is a socialist/marxist/Nazi/communist (and sometimes Kenyan) terrorist out to destroy America because...satan!

    What we gave up was not reasonable especially when you consider that we could have tried to rescue Bergdahl at any time but chose not to because of the "risk". We're risking MORE by setting these guys free.
    Look, if you want to raise hell about creating more terrorists, go hold the guys to account for TORTURING the Iraqi POW's. THAT had to create thousands more insurgents and terrorists...just as if our soldiers had been tortured by and with the approva of, say, the Iranian government, what would we as a nation have done? You know doggone well what we would have done. Yet we expect them to be okay when we torture THEIR people?

    We did what we have always done - we brought all our soldiers home. Anything less than that is unacceptable.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Glen I think the reason so many are against this deal is the Taliban isn’t looked at as a government or country as England, Germany, the Union or Confederate governments, the North Vietnamese government etc, the Taliban is looked at through most Americans eyes as a terrorist organization, not a country or a government. Most Americans would be shocked that the Taliban has been declared a terrorist organization by the state department if they found out they haven’t. Even the Taliban we captured were classified as detainees and not POW’s. So in reality the swap was one POW for 5 detainees. If the Taliban was a country or a government I do not think you would see such an uproar over this deal. In most people’s minds it was not POW’s that were swapped, but one American hostage for 5 Taliban hard core leaders whom we had detained, detainees.

    As for what president would make this deal, just go back two years when Panetta was Secretary of Defense and we were offered the same deal. Panetta turned it down, I assume with this president’s blessing. I doubt Panetta would have made that decision on his own. So your answer is Obama.

    As to whether this deal was good or bad, the future will tell. If these five rejoin the fight and go back to killing Americans and our allies or if now the Taliban start kidnapping more Americans for future prisoners trades, we will know it was a bad deal. But if nothing happens, these fears do not come to pass, then it was a good deal. I do not think one can argue today whether this deal is good or bad, no one knows for sure until time passes and we see the repercussions from this deal.

    As for me, I want to know what happened in the last two years that would make the president turn down this deal then, but now accept it. I have a sneaky suspicion that there is a whole lot more going on here than just a prisoner swap.
    Do you know who comprised the government of Afghanistan when we invaded? It was the Taliban. Yes, they were a terrible government...but they were still the government. And they reacted - and are still reacting - as any government would when the nation is invaded. We can call them 'terrorist' all day long, but they WERE the Afghan government when we invaded.

    In their eyes, they are patriots...and if you can muster the ability to put yourself in their shoes, to see things the way they do, you can't really blame them. But what they intend to do is of SECONDARY importance - the most important thing to do is to bring all our soldiers home.

    Here's something else for you to think about: Iran. They're a terrorist nation full of people who hate America and freedom, right? So...if you were Iranian, what would you think of a nation that deposed your democratically-elected leader (because America wanted her corporations to continue to have access to Iranian oil) and put Shah Reza Pahlavi in his place? That's what we did in the 1950's. If you were Iranian, how long would it take you to "get over" that? And that's not all - during the Iran/Iraq war, yes, we sold stuff to both sides, but Iraq got the lion's share of the aid, including intel and other logistics aid. Millions of Iranians died in that war...and that was less than 30 years ago.

    How would you, an Iranian, feel towards America, knowing what we did to them in the 1950's, and how we helped Iraq kill millions of them in the 1980's?

    And Americans wonder why they hate us?

    One would think that if we had brains, we'd get all our troops out of Afghanistan, and set all the people in Gitmo free (that place is a perversion of American values!).

    BTW, one more thing - do you know the real reason why we're in Afghanistan? It has nothing to do with Afghanistan...and everything to do with the nuclear arsenal next door in Pakistan. If you'll recall, just a few years ago an al-Qaeda-led force got within 40 miles of the capital before they were defeated. That's the real reason why we're still there...because if we get all our troops out of there, then al-Qaeda has a logistics base that Pakistan can't get to...and if Pakistan were to fall to al-Qaeda (or a similar group), THEN we're going to have a real problem on our hands.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Whether or not they died in the process is unknown. I've yet to see substantiation. However, there is no direct link of responsibility. Bergdahl was unarmed and he cannot control the Taliban.
    Who are you looking for substantiation from, if not his fellow soldiers? Susan Rice?

  8. #218
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Who are you looking for substantiation from, if not his fellow soldiers? Susan Rice?
    Susan Rice has a track record of being up front and honest, providing the best in... bwahahahah!! Sorry... I couldn't do it without.... I mean.... did the CIA edit her talking points again?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Susan Rice has a track record of being up front and honest, providing the best in... bwahahahah!! Sorry... I couldn't do it without.... I mean.... did the CIA edit her talking points again?
    Can we believe anything anymore? It's amazing that Obama still has an almost 40%approval rating.

    Nonetheless it seems that the Leftists like people who are hyper-critical of their country and their fellow Americans. This Bergdahl fellow may well have a successful political career in front of him.

    Old Campfire Stories
    They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country. - J.Kerry

  10. #220
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    Re: Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Can we believe anything anymore? It's amazing that Obama still has an almost 40%approval rating.
    Amazing is an understatement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Nonetheless it seems that the Leftists like people who are hyper-critical of their country and their fellow Americans. This Bergdahl fellow may well have a successful political career in front of him.

    Old Campfire Stories
    Agreed. After he's cleared by the UCMJ to save face for this administration, he has a good shot at a political career --- I agree.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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