Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

Ockham · Jun 5, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
And if the Army feels the need to ask the president first, they'll do just that. What's more, in the beginning, the search for Bergdahl was directed by the Army - no outside 'permission' needed. But when it became a matter of our intelligence services having to be the ones to find Bergdahl, they can't just go tell the Army, "There he is, go get him." It becomes a much bigger thing, a matter to be taken up at the cabinet level.

But not to a Congressional level as law dictates.

Glen Contrarian said:
Do we know why Bergdahl did what he did, or what he was subjected to? No. "Innocent till proven guilty". If the Army finds him guilty and sends him off to Leavenworth, that's fine. But we bring our soldiers home.

And this soldier should be brought home last. There are more American's being held which could have taken priority, yet the fact is, Obama decided he needed a political boost with the American people and rolled out the parents in the Rose Garden, totally misread the result and dismissed Bergdahls desertion assuming the soldiers which signed the NDA would keep their mouths shut while Susan Rice went again on the Sunday shows and lied. All of this, for a few political brownie points and to get over the VA scandal hounding the president.

I'm hoping a UCMJ investigation and the reports done by the Army are reviewed when Bergdahl allegedly deserted his post, so a court martial can take place. Whether or not he voluntarily provided the enemy information or gave it up as a result of torture, we'll have to wait and see.

apdst · Jun 5, 2014

mtm1963 said:
when we are talking about 1 soldier being released, 5 taliban being released, 6 soldiers who were killed searching for Bowe Bergdahl and then comparing the 5 taliban released as being like the killer of millions...............hitler, stalin and mao............ oh yes numbers matter.

we are talking about 5 people released.

a family has their son back.......... SAFE!!

There are 6 families that lost their sons because of this piece of crap

mtm1963 · Jun 5, 2014

apdst said:
There are 6 families that lost their sons because of this piece of crap

and there is a family who has their son back............

you can't change that past, those 6 soldiers were doing what they were asked to do, as were ALL the soldiers that died!!

Glen Contrarian · Jun 5, 2014

mtm1963 said:
a person in the military knows that's true and its their expectation that will happen - they will not give up and they will do everything to find them.

That is, unless by our actions as a nation we prove otherwise. If we did not go get Bergdahl, then we bring into question our commitment to that tradition. "By their actions shall ye know them", y'know?

mtm1963 · Jun 5, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
That is, unless by our actions as a nation we prove otherwise. If we did not go get Bergdahl, then we bring into question our commitment to that tradition. "By their actions shall ye know them", y'know?

their claim is..... 6 soldiers died trying to find him.

Glen Contrarian · Jun 5, 2014

Ockham said:
But not to a Congressional level as law dictates.

And if you'll check, there's been a battle between Congress and the Presidency concerning how much power the president should or should not have...ever since our nation was founded. And whatever law was passed prior, the president is still the commander-in-chief - it's not as if he doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to POW's.

And this soldier should be brought home last. There are more American's being held which could have taken priority, yet the fact is, Obama decided he needed a political boost with the American people and rolled out the parents in the Rose Garden, totally misread the result and dismissed Bergdahls desertion assuming the soldiers which signed the NDA would keep their mouths shut while Susan Rice went again on the Sunday shows and lied. All of this, for a few political brownie points and to get over the VA scandal hounding the president.

Really? You really think this is about the VA? Dude...the negotiations to get Bergdahl have been going on since long before the VA issue came to the fore. If you'll check, the negotiations became serious this past December when a video (which has not yet been made public) appeared to show that Bergdahl's physical condition was deteriorating.

You really should learn to be as cynical of your own side's claims as you are of the claims of others.

I'm hoping a UCMJ investigation and the reports done by the Army are reviewed when Bergdahl allegedly deserted his post, so a court martial can take place. Whether or not he voluntarily provided the enemy information or gave it up as a result of torture, we'll have to wait and see.

By all indications it looks as if he will be subject to an investigation under the UCMJ...but that's up to the Army. The important thing - as the Right seems to be forgetting - is that we uphold our tradition that all our military comes home, that we MUST do this (no matter how much we might not like the soldier in question) in order to prove to our military by our actions the lengths we will go to, to bring them home. Otherwise, they'll know that we won't try that hard to bring them home.

Filthy McNasty · Jun 5, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
That is, unless by our actions as a nation we prove otherwise. If we did not go get Bergdahl, then we bring into question our commitment to that tradition. "By their actions shall ye know them", y'know?

We did not "go get" Bergdahl, we made a swap for him. Approximately six of the people that did try to "go get" him died as a result of his desertion. While some of what they were doing in the same time period would have also placed those soldiers lives in danger (patrols, missions) lives were lost directly because of efforts to find Bergdahl. Which is decidedly not what constitutes the "job" of our military forces. Lying down their lives for deserters, sadly known deserters at the time the soldiers died. The sooner the minority of people such as yourself who choose to ignore it just face that inevitable fact, the less you will need it explained to you. Repeatedly. Bergdahl will get his day in court. There are legitimate criticisms about the handling of this "swap" based upon information such as the fact that many died trying to find this deserter. And that criticism is of the bi-partisan variety. I see that in post #306 you speak to Ockham about his "side" in this. Frankly it is obvious which "side" you are on. The side of the administration, hell you could be Jay Carney's replacement. Meanwhile most of the rest of the country is fairly disgusted with what we are learning about the administrations handling of this matter, from left to right "side" of the political aisle. While posters like you have picked and speak to, taking sides.

Glen Contrarian · Jun 5, 2014

mtm1963 said:
their claim is..... 6 soldiers died trying to find him.

And they would do it all over again. That, sir, is what our military does - if we have to risk our lives to bring them home, that's what we will do.

Arbo · Jun 5, 2014

mtm1963 said:
you can't change that past, those 6 soldiers were doing what they were asked to do, as were ALL the soldiers that died!!

And if the one soldier didn't desert, they wouldn't have been asked to do those things that caused their death.

Ockham · Jun 5, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
And if you'll check, there's been a battle between Congress and the Presidency concerning how much power the president should or should not have...ever since our nation was founded. And whatever law was passed prior, the president is still the commander-in-chief - it's not as if he doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to POW's.

Given the law Obama himself signed a little over a year ago requiring him to give Congress 30 days notice, he violated the law he himself signed. Him being a law professor and all... you'd think he'd be more sensitive to following the law instead of ignoring it.

Glen Contrarian said:
Really?

Yeah. Really.

Glen Contrarian said:
You really think this is about the VA?

I think I already said what I think.

Glen Contrarian said:
Dude...the negotiations to get Bergdahl have been going on since long before the VA issue came to the fore.

It's obviously not the negotiations, it's the Rose Garden circus, it's the misreading of giving up 5 really bad terrorist guys for an alleged deserter who has been discussed since at least 2010 and more so since 2012. Dude.

Glen Contrarian said:
If you'll check, the negotiations became serious this past December when a video (which has not yet been made public) appeared to show that Bergdahl's physical condition was deteriorating.

Certainly more than enough time to meet the 30 day legal requirement then eh?

Glen Contrarian said:
You really should learn to be as cynical of your own side's claims as you are of the claims of others.

I get to be cynical about all government.

Glen Contrarian said:
By all indications it looks as if he will be subject to an investigation under the UCMJ...but that's up to the Army.

I would hope so.

Glen Contrarian said:
The important thing - as the Right seems to be forgetting - is that we uphold our tradition that all our military comes home, that we MUST do this (no matter how much we might not like the soldier in question) in order to prove to our military by our actions the lengths we will go to, to bring them home. Otherwise, they'll know that we won't try that hard to bring them home.

I agree, just bring him home last, which is what I've said now three times. Hopefully this time you get it.

Slartibartfast · Jun 5, 2014

Ockham said:
Perhaps we could have gotten the 72 year old grandfather back instead and move Bergdahl to the bottom of the list. Monday morning quarterbacking - absolutely. But then again, these Harvard and Yale folks in the White House are supposed to be a lot smarter than us regular yokels. This debacle pretty much debunks that though.

Its not an instead or an or. The answer to bringing back both american citizens should be yes.

Filthy McNasty · Jun 5, 2014

From one Bergdahl thread to another it as if there is this long telephone line covered in chittering magpies. All of them calling out "leave none behind" but when confronted with facts about the "swap" these magpies then chitter "leave common sense behind too" caw caw caw.

Glen Contrarian · Jun 5, 2014

Filthy McNasty said:
We did not "go get" Bergdahl, we made a swap for him. Approximately six of the people that did try to "go get" him died as a result of his desertion. While some of what they were doing in the same time period would have also placed those soldiers lives in danger (patrols, missions) lives were lost directly because of efforts to find Bergdahl. Which is decidedly not what constitutes the "job" of our military forces. Lying down their lives for deserters, sadly known deserters at the time the soldiers died. The sooner the minority of people such as yourself who choose to ignore it just face that inevitable fact, the less you will need it explained to you. Repeatedly. Bergdahl will get his day in court. There are legitimate criticisms about the handling of this "swap" based upon information such as the fact that many died trying to find this deserter. And that criticism is of the bi-partisan variety. I see that in post #306 you speak to Ockham about his "side" in this. Frankly it is obvious which "side" you are on. The side of the administration, hell you could be Jay Carney's replacement. Meanwhile most of the rest of the country is fairly disgusted with what we are learning about the administrations handling of this matter, from left to right "side" of the political aisle. While posters like you have picked and speak to, taking sides.

Ah, yet another Dittohead. I guess Gen. McChrystal's a left-wing talking head now, too:

Retired Gen. Stanley McChrystal on Wednesday urged Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl’s critics not to “judge” him until all the facts are in and sharply defended the extensive and risky search efforts that claimed the lives of some of his fellow soldiers.
“We did a huge number of operations to try to stop the Taliban from being able to move him across the border into Pakistan,” McChrystal told Yahoo News in an exclusive interview. “And we made a great effort and put a lot of people at risk in doing that, but that’s what you should do. That’s what soldiers do for each other.”

Bergdahl’s release as part of a prisoner swap involving five Taliban commanders has drawn angry scrutiny in Congress. It has also prompted some of his former comrades in arms to paint him as a deserter unworthy of the frantic search efforts on his behalf.

McChrystal, who commanded the war effort in Afghanistan at the time of Bergdahl’s June 2009 vanishing, declined to shed any more light on the circumstances of his disappearance.

“We’re going to have to wait and talk to Sgt. Bergdahl now and get his side of the story,” he said. “One of the great things about America is we should not judge until we know the facts. And after we know the facts, then we should make a mature judgment on how we should handle it.”

Asked whether he would have made the same prisoner swap, McChrystal replied: “We don’t leave Americans behind. That’s unequivocal.”

And there's more than a few retired military like myself who feel the same.

Oh, wait, I forgot the Right's one unbreakable rule: Thou Shalt Not EVER agree that Obama did anything right ever no matter what....

Ockham · Jun 5, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
Oh, wait, I forgot the Right's one unbreakable rule: Thou Shalt Not EVER agree that Obama did anything right ever no matter what....

He ****s up nearly everything he touches with the exception of his Osama decision. The man and his administration is incompetent given the litany of scandals, screw ups, CIA field commander outed, and now the Rose Garden screw up. Even the die hard Obama politicians are keeping this at arms length in Washington but some of the loopy wingnut liberals have no issue defending the stupid and incompetent of this administration. Puppet theatre, pass the popcorn!

Arbo · Jun 5, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
And there's more than a few retired military like myself who feel the same.

How many of you and those that feel the same knew of a guy that just walked away, and due to it had friends killed looking for him?

Oh, wait, I forgot the Right's one unbreakable rule: Thou Shalt Not EVER agree that Obama did anything right ever no matter what....

Doesn't that match the 8 years of Bush when he never did anything right according to the 'left'? LOL. So much hypocrisy.

Obama has tired to do things right (like not enforcing federal drug laws on states that legalized pot) … but in the end the DEA and other federal forces are still raiding those now state legal places…

Linc · Jun 5, 2014

Ockham said:
He ****s up nearly everything he touches with the exception of his Osama decision.

Even Kauthammer is with the President on this one.
This latest phony scandal has unraveled for ya in less than a week .

Ockham · Jun 5, 2014

NIMBY said:
Even Kauthammer is with the President on this one.
This latest phony scandal has unraveled for ya in less than a week .

Yes we know, everything is phony.

bubbabgone · Jun 5, 2014

This would have been a whole lot less complicated and suspicious if we didn't have a President with a history of politically driven lies, deception, divisiveness, and disregard for the Law ... not to mention his own unorthodox concept of what the USA should become.

Glen Contrarian · Jun 5, 2014

Ockham said:
He ****s up nearly everything he touches with the exception of his Osama decision. The man and his administration is incompetent given the litany of scandals, screw ups, CIA field commander outed, and now the Rose Garden screw up. Even the die hard Obama politicians are keeping this at arms length in Washington but some of the loopy wingnut liberals have no issue defending the stupid and incompetent of this administration. Puppet theatre, pass the popcorn!

Yeah, got us out of Iraq. What a screw up!
Is getting us out of Afghanistan. What a screw up!
Did NOT get us involved in any other wars. What a screw up!
Had us paying less in federal taxes than at any time since the early 1950's. What a screw up!
Took over in the worst economic free-fall since the Depression. What a screw up!
And STILL managed to get us out of that free-fall within half a year. What a screw up!
Grew government at the slowest pace since Eisenhower. What a screw up!
Got rid of "Don't ask don't tell" and allowed gays to serve openly in the military. What a screw up!
Has given us FIFTY CONSECUTIVE MONTHS of private sector job growth. What a screw up!

Guy, if Obama had had an (R) behind his name, y'all would be clamoring for his face to be put up on Mount Rushmore. But since he has a (D) behind his name, well, THAT means that everything he does must be wrong no matter what!

Linc · Jun 5, 2014

No answer but giving in is not worth the waste of your time.
America already sees through this latest round of politicizing foreign affairs.
Such as Ayotte and McCain being FOR release before they were against it.
The pendulum swings back to the DEMs, especially when Cochran loses .

Ockham said:
Yes we know, everything is phony.

apdst · Jun 5, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
That is, unless by our actions as a nation we prove otherwise. If we did not go get Bergdahl, then we bring into question our commitment to that tradition. "By their actions shall ye know them", y'know?

A failure to punish Bergdahl could threaten discipline.

Filthy McNasty · Jun 5, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
Ah, yet another Dittohead. I guess Gen. McChrystal's a left-wing talking head now, too:

Retired Gen. Stanley McChrystal on Wednesday urged Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl’s critics not to “judge” him until all the facts are in and sharply defended the extensive and risky search efforts that claimed the lives of some of his fellow soldiers.
“We did a huge number of operations to try to stop the Taliban from being able to move him across the border into Pakistan,” McChrystal told Yahoo News in an exclusive interview. “And we made a great effort and put a lot of people at risk in doing that, but that’s what you should do. That’s what soldiers do for each other.”

Bergdahl’s release as part of a prisoner swap involving five Taliban commanders has drawn angry scrutiny in Congress. It has also prompted some of his former comrades in arms to paint him as a deserter unworthy of the frantic search efforts on his behalf.

McChrystal, who commanded the war effort in Afghanistan at the time of Bergdahl’s June 2009 vanishing, declined to shed any more light on the circumstances of his disappearance.

“We’re going to have to wait and talk to Sgt. Bergdahl now and get his side of the story,” he said. “One of the great things about America is we should not judge until we know the facts. And after we know the facts, then we should make a mature judgment on how we should handle it.”

Asked whether he would have made the same prisoner swap, McChrystal replied: “We don’t leave Americans behind. That’s unequivocal.”

And there's more than a few retired military like myself who feel the same.

Oh, wait, I forgot the Right's one unbreakable rule: Thou Shalt Not EVER agree that Obama did anything right ever no matter what....

I did not say anything about this deflection of yours, I was referring to your dittohead approach to the facts on the table. As you continue to ignore that people from all sides of the political aisle have issues and critisims with the administrations handling of this whole affair. Which somehow you managed to interpret as my saying someone, anyone was a talking head. You were waxing not so poetic about what would come of us if we did not "go get" Bergdahl. I pointed out the simple fact, we did not "go get" Bergdahl, we made a swap for him. Approximately six of the people that did try to "go get" him died as a result of his desertion. I also pointed out that the sooner the "side picking" minority of people such as yourself who choose to ignore them just face inevitable facts, that you keep running away from? The less you will need them explained to you repeatedly and by multiple posters. And you won't have to veer so desperately into spinning up strawmen deflections. Try to keep up or at the least address what you bothered to quote from other posters instead of the brainless strawmen. :doh

apdst · Jun 5, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
And they would do it all over again. That, sir, is what our military does - if we have to risk our lives to bring them home, that's what we will do.

You think troops are going to risk their lives to find a deserter, again?

mbig · Jun 5, 2014

Chez3 said:
Ockham to Chez3 said:

Can you point to one area where the government as RFID a human prisoner or terrorist without their knowledge and we tracked them successfully - anywhere at any time? This would be a first and truly remarkable if accomplished in Qatar. Have a nice night.

Click to expand...

I said good day...

When ChezC3 is 100% Lost he says "good day" and ChzC3 expects YOU to shut up!

If you press his Empty/Lost position .. he says "I said good day" again, as if he doesn't know that "Good day" means HE Takes/Took leave, and that You can still reply!

He just tried the one-two juvenile/lost-point Trolling on me to!
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middl...unveil-unity-government-6.html#post1063366558

Ockham · Jun 5, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
Yeah, got us out of Iraq. What a screw up!

That was on the books by Bush before Obama came into office. Doh!

Glen Contrarian said:
Is getting us out of Afghanistan. What a screw up!

The "just" war he supported, but now doesn't like anymore. Doh!

Glen Contrarian said:
Did NOT get us involved in any other wars. What a screw up!

Not surprising since makes up his foreign policy on a whim. Doh!

Glen Contrarian said:
Had us paying less in federal taxes than at any time since the early 1950's. What a screw up!

And increased our debt more than all presidents combined! Doh!

Glen Contrarian said:
Took over in the worst economic free-fall since the Depression. What a screw up!

Took us over? :lamo

Glen Contrarian said:
And STILL managed to get us out of that free-fall within half a year. What a screw up!

By doing what exactly - just being Obama. Doh!

Glen Contrarian said:
Grew government at the slowest pace since Eisenhower. What a screw up!

Yay more nonesense - did you just make that up or was that on Media Matters talking points? Doh!

Glen Contrarian said:
Got rid of "Don't ask don't tell" and allowed gays to serve openly in the military. What a screw up!

You got that right.

Glen Contrarian said:
Has given us FIFTY CONSECUTIVE MONTHS of private sector job growth. What a screw up!

And changed the way unemployment is calculated by ignoring the highest number of people dropping out of the job market in American history. Doh!

Lets see where shall I start...

Lied about the stimulus package claiming the economy was going to explode
Cash for clunkers waste of time and money
Shovel ready jobs waste of time and money
The Russian "reset" and Obama's "flexibility" after the election back fires
The Arab Spring which backfired
The Syrian red line, and second red line standing by and watching a hundred thousand people die, by chemical weapon no less
The Beer Summit (aka, "The Police acted stupidly")
Outing a CIA station chief in Afghanistan
The VA administration scandal he knew about in 2008 and did nothing about until it blew up in his face
The IRS targeting Obama's enemies, which is still being blocked from investigation
Tapping the press phone records
Benghazi and the death of three Americans, zero terrorists arrested or held accountable two years later, Susan Rice sent out to lie to the American people.
Fast & Furious sending guns over the boarder without the ability to track them
The ACA rollout
The GSA spending nearly a million dollars on clowns and mind readers
Green job poster child Solyndra and their subsequent bankruptcy
The "If you like your insurance you can keep your insurance, period" lie.
Bergdahl Rose Garden circus, trading 5 top Taliban terrorist leaders for an alleged deserter (add: Another Susan Rice lie fest on the Sunday shows)

Now for the best part

Unemployment reduction is due to the highest number of American's dropping out of the work force

Labor-Force-Dropouts-Drive-Lower-Unemployment-Rate-TheFederalist-468x290.png

The bailout of GM backfired and now GM is facing a huge scandal for replacing parts with defective ones which have killed quite a few people and has caused millions of recalls. Great investment there!

GM: No cover-up in ignition switch defect 15 employees fired - MSN Autos

Poverty under Obama breaks a 50 year record! Way to go!

Poverty level under Obama breaks 50-year record - Washington Times

Unemployment for minorities skyrockets!
Minority Unemployment Skyrocketing, Report Says | Black Radio Network

Oh yeah, Obama's just doing a bang up job!

Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

Ockham

Noblesse oblige

apdst

mtm1963

Glen Contrarian

mtm1963

Glen Contrarian

Filthy McNasty

Glen Contrarian

Arbo

Ockham

Noblesse oblige

Slartibartfast

Jesus loves you.

Filthy McNasty

Glen Contrarian

Ockham

Noblesse oblige

Arbo

Linc

NIMBY

Ockham

Noblesse oblige

bubbabgone

Glen Contrarian

Linc

NIMBY

apdst

Filthy McNasty

apdst

mbig

onomatopoeic

Ockham

Noblesse oblige