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US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

i don't have a problem with that. what i do have a problem with is making EVERY ****ING THING INTO A POLITICAL FISTFIGHT.

watch the comments on this article :

Wartime messages to parents, fellow soldiers reveal troubled Bergdahl | Fox News

fox finally turned them back on.

this is absolutely being used for political nonsense. i'm so ****ing sick of it, i could puke.

Yet you keep posting, yelling, and swearing. About politics. On a politics forum. Get out already.
 
Well, to be honest it's a political issue. It involves the military and government actions, so by definition it has to be political.

everything doesn't have to be instantly and automatically hyperpartisan.

here's how it worked for me :

1. heard a breaking news update that a POW was being set free. i had been reading stuff on and off about him being a POW, and it bothered me.

2. felt a sense of relief, and was really glad for him and for his family.

here's how it worked for the hyperpartisans :

1. heard a breaking news update that a POW was being set free.

2. go online and freak out about the president again, and then attack me for being glad that a POW is free.

Obama could retire tomorrow and i wouldn't give a ****. Biden could renounce his citizenship and move to Belize. i would give zero ****s, other than to hope whoever stepped in wouldn't suck worse. everyone has pretty much ruined politics with this nonsense, and the bull**** in congress means nothing can get done. ****, we couldn't even fix health care because of the nuttery.

so i'll sum this up by repeating my first post in the thread :

Helix said:
this is a good thing. i can't imagine what he went through. i'm very glad that he is being released.
 
everything doesn't have to be instantly and automatically hyperpartisan.

here's how it worked for me :

1. heard a breaking news update that a POW was being set free. i had been reading stuff on and off about him being a POW, and it bothered me.

2. felt a sense of relief, and was really glad for him and for his family.

here's how it worked for the hyperpartisans :

1. heard a breaking news update that a POW was being set free.

2. go online and freak out about the president again, and then attack me for being glad that a POW is free.

Obama could retire tomorrow and i wouldn't give a ****. Biden could renounce his citizenship and move to Belize. i would give zero ****s, other than to hope whoever stepped in wouldn't suck worse. everyone has pretty much ruined politics with this nonsense, and the bull**** in congress means nothing can get done. ****, we couldn't even fix health care because of the nuttery.

so i'll sum this up by repeating my first post in the thread :

I share some of your frustrations, Helix; I really do. But here's how it's going for me:

1. heard a breaking news update that a POW was being set free. i had been reading stuff on and off about him being a POW, and it bothered me.

2. felt a sense of relief, and was really glad for him and for his family.

3. now read at WaPo and other outlets that he may well be a deserter rather than a POW and now have non-hyperpartisan questions. Many.
 
I share some of your frustrations, Helix; I really do. But here's how it's going for me:

1. heard a breaking news update that a POW was being set free. i had been reading stuff on and off about him being a POW, and it bothered me.

2. felt a sense of relief, and was really glad for him and for his family.

3. now read at WaPo and other outlets that he may well be a deserter rather than a POW and now have non-hyperpartisan questions. Many.


Exactly. The news now is coming up that Military command has known the location of Bergdahl for years but never staged a rescue mission because he was declared a deserter, and likely a collaborator, and they didn't want to waste good men rescuing him.

In return reclaiming the deserter Obama has essentially released 5 Osama Bin Ladens back into the wild.


Edit: And now it is being reported that when Bergdahl left his post (leaving the camp exposed, mind you) he also left a note renouncing his US citizenship.

This keeps getting worse...
 
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everything doesn't have to be instantly and automatically hyperpartisan.

here's how it worked for me :

1. heard a breaking news update that a POW was being set free. i had been reading stuff on and off about him being a POW, and it bothered me.

2. felt a sense of relief, and was really glad for him and for his family.

here's how it worked for the hyperpartisans :

1. heard a breaking news update that a POW was being set free.

2. go online and freak out about the president again, and then attack me for being glad that a POW is free.

Obama could retire tomorrow and i wouldn't give a ****. Biden could renounce his citizenship and move to Belize. i would give zero ****s, other than to hope whoever stepped in wouldn't suck worse. everyone has pretty much ruined politics with this nonsense, and the bull**** in congress means nothing can get done. ****, we couldn't even fix health care because of the nuttery.

so i'll sum this up by repeating my first post in the thread :

Yet you are in a, by definition, site that is set up discuss political opinions.

It'd be like you walking into a McDonald's and saying that you are sick of McDonald's food.
 
Exactly. The news now is coming up that Military command has known the location of Bergdahl for years but never staged a rescue mission because he was declared a deserter, and likely a collaborator, and they didn't want to waste good men rescuing him.

In return reclaiming the deserter Obama has essentially released 5 Osama Bin Ladens back into the wild.


Edit: And now it is being reported that when Bergdahl left his post (leaving the camp exposed, mind you) he also left a note renouncing his US citizenship.

This keeps getting worse...


I just read the same thing. Commanders on the ground knew where he was and decided not to risk any further danger to American service men and women. Obama, naw, we need something to draw attention from my non-stewardship of the American veterans.. Crap, why didn't you assholes tell me this guy would be hated by the American people? It is mind-blowingly stupid how ill-informed this President is. I mean how is it possible? How the hell can an American President be so inept?


Tim-
 
2. go online and freak out about the president again, and then attack me for being glad that a POW is free.

I'm sorry, but how exactly is it hyperpartisan for people to criticize you for legit feelings of happiness for the gentleman's family...but it's not hyperpartisan for you to complain about people criticizing Obama for a legit concern?

I would have no issue with your claims if you were criticizing people simply for attacking those that express happiness for the family. That's absolutely legitimate. One can disagree with HOW it was done and WHO it was done for...and still be happy on a personal level for the family that got their son back.

But you're not just criticizing them for that...you're ALSO criticizing them because they have the audacity to air legitimate greivances over something simply because there's a potential "good" personal level effect from it.

It's entirely legitimate to suggest that trading 5 individuals who have cost american lives and have actively engaged to some degree with terrorist action for one POW, abscent all the other crap being talked about for said POW, is a poor foreign policy and defense decision. It is in no way unreasonable to suggest that doing such establishes a value of worth on the lives of American Soldiers. It is in no way unreasonable to suggest that doing such may save the live of this POW, but has a legitimate potential to threaten the lives of multiple Americans if these guys return to their previous ways. It'd be one thing if you were just criticizing those who may go over the top, suggesting Obama is actively trying to "help the enemy" or something like this...but you're criticisms seem simply pointed at anyone who dares suggeset the President acted wrongly here.

Its entirely legitimate to be upset and voice grievance over the President for a wanton violation of the law. Regardless of him doing a signing statement claiming he thinks the law is unconstitutional, the fact is he signed the bill into law...meaning it IS law. The President does not have fiat power to simply declare something constitutional or not. There is nothing wrong, what so ever, in expressing anger or antipathy towards the administration for a violation of the law.

Your anger at other peoples hyper partisanship seems to blind you of your own, and of others. Yes, people are wrongfully attacking folks for simply being happy for the POW's family that he's free, or for the POW himself for being free. And those people are likely doing it for partisan reasons. However, there are a multitude of people attacking individuals for criticizing legitimate policy and legal aspects of this simply because they think it's unfairly being aimed at Obama. They, too, are doing it primarily for partisan reasons...specifically aggression TOWARDS the partisan leans of those making the accusations. If it wasn't for that reason then equal condemnation would be tossed at those attacking folks for daring to air a legitimate grievance towards an act of foreign policy.

You sum it up by repeating your first post in this thread. I'll sum it up by highlighting your first sentence.

"This is a good thing"

That's a fine opinoin. Disagreeing with that opinion is not hyper partisan. You did not, in any way, cache that statement in specifics. You didn't say "it's a good thing" as it relates to the family. You didn't specifiy that it's a good thing specifically for the POW. You made a claim, in a BROAD sense, that this is a "good thing".

And that absolutely can be legitimately challenged without it being "hyper partisan" in nature. I'm sorry that it seems to bother you that people can make judgements on political issues outside of their emotional gut reaction to the event on a personal level, but it absolutely can happen. One can absolutely feel happy for the family and still think this is a bad thing in terms of policy or legality.

"It's a good thing for the family" is a hard thing to legitimately make an argument against, and attacking someone for feeling that way would be ridiculous.

"It's a good thing", full stop, broadly stated is an easy thing to legitimately make an argument against, and it's absolutely not wrong in any way to attack someone for having that opinion on an issue.
 
"It's a good thing for the family" is a hard thing to legitimately make an argument against, and attacking someone for feeling that way would be ridiculous.

"It's a good thing", full stop, broadly stated is an easy thing to legitimately make an argument against, and it's absolutely not wrong in any way to attack someone for having that opinion on an issue.


The only thing I would add to this is that, I doubt it is a good thing for the family if one considers that this deserter will basically be giving up one prison for another, and if one believes the testimony that Bergdahl was in fact in cohorts with the enemy, one might argue that trading for an American jail was perhaps the worst thing for the family.

Tim-
 
The only thing I would add to this is that, I doubt it is a good thing for the family if one considers that this deserter will basically be giving up one prison for another

There's a chance he won't end up in prison here. There was no chance he would not end up in captivity there (because he was).

The family WILL/IS getting a chance to see, talk to, embrace their son again. There was no chance for that to happen while in afghanistan.

Sorry Hicup, but I don't see any way one can make that claim other than to simply use it as a hollow excuse to bang the drum about this guy alledgedly being a desert once again.

You're talking about a lot of bad things that might happen here as opposed to the similar bad things unquestionably happening there, while at the same time ignoring the good things that are definitely happening here that would not be happening there.
 
There's a chance he won't end up in prison here. There was no chance he would not end up in captivity there (because he was).

The family WILL/IS getting a chance to see, talk to, embrace their son again. There was no chance for that to happen while in afghanistan.

Sorry Hicup, but I don't see any way one can make that claim other than to simply use it as a hollow excuse to bang the drum about this guy alledgedly being a desert once again.

You're talking about a lot of bad things that might happen here as opposed to the similar bad things unquestionably happening there, while at the same time ignoring the good things that are definitely happening here that would not be happening there.


Hehe, well forgive me, but aren't you doing exactly the same thing? ;)

How do YOU know he wasn't happy there, and his fellow jihadists simply threw him under the bus for the leadership reunion party? How do YOU know anything, or even enough o say that what I speculate is any less worthy of consideration than your speculation? Do you honestly think with the notoriety this has achieved in literally a day, that Obama is just going to let this guy walk scott-free without a trial?

Naw, even he's NOT that stupid.


By the way, you say things like unquestionably, yet say allegedly he was a deserter. I think your rush to be the moderate voice in all of this is clouding your judgment. Rather, I would say that he allegedly had it bad there (Although from the pics I saw I don't know how you could make that claim) but he most certainly was a deserter. Not the other way round as you would have intimated.


Tim-
 
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How do YOU know he wasn't happy there, and his fellow jihadists simply threw him under the bus for the leadership reunion party?

If he is happy there, he could return or he could have refused to comply with American authorities.

I think you're being wholey dishonest if you're suggesting stating he was in captivity there is somehow "speculating" on the same degree, or even speculation at all, as saying he'll be imprisoned here.

I'm going off facts that are currently presented. The facts currently presented is that he WAS a captive. The facts currently presented is that he's alledgedly a deserter. One of those results in 100% certainty of being in captivity, one does not. That's simply a fact.
 
If he is happy there, he could return or he could have refused to comply with American authorities.

Or, he could be the good jihadist and following orders.


I think you're being wholey dishonest if you're suggesting stating he was in captivity there is somehow "speculating" on the same degree, or even speculation at all, as saying he'll be imprisoned here.

This doesn't even make sense, but if I think I know what you're trying to say, may I offer that you have no idea if he was in captivity. Captivity suggest being held against one's will. You, nor I know whether he was a willing soldier for the Taliban, and only a tribunal will vet that out. So yeah, Zyph you're speculation is still speculation, as is mine.

I'm going off facts that are currently presented. The facts currently presented is that he WAS a captive.


Not a fact... One could easily say he went on walkabout and was simply found, exploited and used, and then dumped on to an mind-blowingly stupid and inept President desperate for anything to take the news off the VA scandal.


The facts currently presented is that he's alledgedly a deserter. One of those results in 100% certainty of being in captivity, one does not. That's simply a fact.

No, in fact there is no testimony from ANYONE that he wasn't a deserter, FACT! Fact, you nor I know if he was an unwilling captive, period!


Tim-
 
Or, he could be the good jihadist and following orders.

In which case it's still "good for him" since he'd be wanting to follow those orders as a good jihadist ;)

Not a fact... One could easily say he went on walkabout and was simply found, exploited and used, and then dumped on to an mind-blowingly stupid and inept President desperate for anything to take the news off the VA scandal.

I'm sorry, but I have any desire to deal with tin foil hat types. There's absolutely zero reason, at this point, to believe he wasn't held captive or was anything other than a POW. Could one "speculate" otherwise? Sure, about as much as one could "speculate" that George Bush order the twin towers to be brought down. You can "speculate" about anything. If it's reasonable speculation is an entirely different thing.

No, in fact there is no testimony from ANYONE that he wasn't a deserter, FACT!

Doesn't matter if there's no testimony from anyone that he wasn't deserter. He's an American Citizen that would be tried under American law...he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. As it stands, it's ALLEDGED that he's a deserter, and being an alledged deserter does not present a 100% chance of being put into captivity no matter how badly you want to spin it.
 
I just read the same thing. Commanders on the ground knew where he was and decided not to risk any further danger to American service men and women. Obama, naw, we need something to draw attention from my non-stewardship of the American veterans.. Crap, why didn't you assholes tell me this guy would be hated by the American people? It is mind-blowingly stupid how ill-informed this President is. I mean how is it possible? How the hell can an American President be so inept?


Tim-

Nice post......glad the guy is coming home......but the timing and cost of this swap is suspect at best.......our Dear Leader looks more and more inept.....
 
I'm sorry, but how exactly is it hyperpartisan for people to criticize you for legit feelings of happiness for the gentleman's family...but it's not hyperpartisan for you to complain about people criticizing Obama for a legit concern?

I would have no issue with your claims if you were criticizing people simply for attacking those that express happiness for the family. That's absolutely legitimate. One can disagree with HOW it was done and WHO it was done for...and still be happy on a personal level for the family that got their son back.

But you're not just criticizing them for that...you're ALSO criticizing them because they have the audacity to air legitimate greivances over something simply because there's a potential "good" personal level effect from it.

It's entirely legitimate to suggest that trading 5 individuals who have cost american lives and have actively engaged to some degree with terrorist action for one POW, abscent all the other crap being talked about for said POW, is a poor foreign policy and defense decision. It is in no way unreasonable to suggest that doing such establishes a value of worth on the lives of American Soldiers. It is in no way unreasonable to suggest that doing such may save the live of this POW, but has a legitimate potential to threaten the lives of multiple Americans if these guys return to their previous ways. It'd be one thing if you were just criticizing those who may go over the top, suggesting Obama is actively trying to "help the enemy" or something like this...but you're criticisms seem simply pointed at anyone who dares suggeset the President acted wrongly here.

Its entirely legitimate to be upset and voice grievance over the President for a wanton violation of the law. Regardless of him doing a signing statement claiming he thinks the law is unconstitutional, the fact is he signed the bill into law...meaning it IS law. The President does not have fiat power to simply declare something constitutional or not. There is nothing wrong, what so ever, in expressing anger or antipathy towards the administration for a violation of the law.

Your anger at other peoples hyper partisanship seems to blind you of your own, and of others. Yes, people are wrongfully attacking folks for simply being happy for the POW's family that he's free, or for the POW himself for being free. And those people are likely doing it for partisan reasons. However, there are a multitude of people attacking individuals for criticizing legitimate policy and legal aspects of this simply because they think it's unfairly being aimed at Obama. They, too, are doing it primarily for partisan reasons...specifically aggression TOWARDS the partisan leans of those making the accusations. If it wasn't for that reason then equal condemnation would be tossed at those attacking folks for daring to air a legitimate grievance towards an act of foreign policy.

You sum it up by repeating your first post in this thread. I'll sum it up by highlighting your first sentence.

"This is a good thing"

That's a fine opinoin. Disagreeing with that opinion is not hyper partisan. You did not, in any way, cache that statement in specifics. You didn't say "it's a good thing" as it relates to the family. You didn't specifiy that it's a good thing specifically for the POW. You made a claim, in a BROAD sense, that this is a "good thing".

And that absolutely can be legitimately challenged without it being "hyper partisan" in nature. I'm sorry that it seems to bother you that people can make judgements on political issues outside of their emotional gut reaction to the event on a personal level, but it absolutely can happen. One can absolutely feel happy for the family and still think this is a bad thing in terms of policy or legality.

"It's a good thing for the family" is a hard thing to legitimately make an argument against, and attacking someone for feeling that way would be ridiculous.

"It's a good thing", full stop, broadly stated is an easy thing to legitimately make an argument against, and it's absolutely not wrong in any way to attack someone for having that opinion on an issue.

it's the way it was done and the timeline. before we really knew anything, the reaction was not one of "POW freed, this is good." it was instantly made political, and the character assassination of this dude started within hours.

i don't know what they're going to find on the guy. i don't care anymore. the whole thing has pissed me off so much that at this point, i just want out of this thread. i'm going to make that happen right now.
 
In which case it's still "good for him" since he'd be wanting to follow those orders as a good jihadist ;)



I'm sorry, but I have any desire to deal with tin foil hat types. There's absolutely zero reason, at this point, to believe he wasn't held captive or was anything other than a POW. Could one "speculate" otherwise? Sure, about as much as one could "speculate" that George Bush order the twin towers to be brought down. You can "speculate" about anything. If it's reasonable speculation is an entirely different thing.



Doesn't matter if there's no testimony from anyone that he wasn't deserter. He's an American Citizen that would be tried under American law...he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. As it stands, it's ALLEDGED that he's a deserter, and being an alledged deserter does not present a 100% chance of being put into captivity no matter how badly you want to spin it.


Yeah like equating reasonable speculation with Bush blowing up the Twin towers is the same thing.. Was good for a laugh though so thanks for that at least. Anyway, I say there is more than enough circumstantial evidence presented thus far to hold the speculative opinion I currently do. In fact, I think to have an opposite opinion brings into question your analytical credibility. I NEVER knee jerk, in fact it's a rule of mine, and I'd love for you to go back through all of my threads to show that I do. However, this one is very different in that I'd be shocked; outright shocked if he wasn't a deserter, and also in cohorts and a willing captive, albeit indoctrinated, and perhaps not thinking he was a captive at all... Too much is pointing in this direction. As to the motives of the President? Well, I stand by that as well This president has zero cred with me, he's a known liar, cheat, and proven to be so inept at being Prez that I can't think of anyone else in the history of American Presidents I'd list below him, not even Carter?

Is he so inept that his handlers simply misjudged this one? Oh yeah, HELL yeah, he's already shown us that on many, MANY occasions. So, that said, is it so far fetched to believe that the President was so desperate for a win anywhere that he missed this one. Yep, I wouldn't have believed it 6 years ago, but I think I'm on solid ground here, Zyph.


Tim-
 
If he is happy there, he could return or he could have refused to comply with American authorities.

I think you're being wholey dishonest if you're suggesting stating he was in captivity there is somehow "speculating" on the same degree, or even speculation at all, as saying he'll be imprisoned here.

I'm going off facts that are currently presented. The facts currently presented is that he WAS a captive. The facts currently presented is that he's alledgedly a deserter. One of those results in 100% certainty of being in captivity, one does not. That's simply a fact.

he left a note saying he was deserting and going to the Taliban..

thats a fact also
 
Or maybe he joined them willingly and provided information.

That certainly appears to be the case at this point in time.

I'm not certain what information he could provide them that they didn't already know, but I suspect that leaving allowed some sort of personal reconciliation for him.
 
Perhaps all politicians are idiots? Whats that go to do with this particular idiot?

Which idiot do you refer to?

My point is that the Bush administration was on friendly terms with the Taliban, until we invaded their country under fraud.

That's the only point, and it is relevant in any calculation as to their inherent evil, as some people get anxious about.

What will eventually happen in this Bergdahl case is that it will become public knowledge that he became a conscientious objector, either before or after he arrived in country. Most likely he understood that we invaded the country under fraud, but whatever his motivation it will become public and the debate will shift.

In a way, this reminds me a bit of the case of Ehren Watada, 1LT USA, who refused orders to Iraq and was court martialed.
 
i'm sorry, but how exactly is it hyperpartisan for people to criticize you for legit feelings of happiness for the gentleman's family...but it's not hyperpartisan for you to complain about people criticizing obama for a legit concern?

I would have no issue with your claims if you were criticizing people simply for attacking those that express happiness for the family. That's absolutely legitimate. One can disagree with how it was done and who it was done for...and still be happy on a personal level for the family that got their son back.

But you're not just criticizing them for that...you're also criticizing them because they have the audacity to air legitimate greivances over something simply because there's a potential "good" personal level effect from it.

It's entirely legitimate to suggest that trading 5 individuals who have cost american lives and have actively engaged to some degree with terrorist action for one pow, abscent all the other crap being talked about for said pow, is a poor foreign policy and defense decision. It is in no way unreasonable to suggest that doing such establishes a value of worth on the lives of american soldiers. It is in no way unreasonable to suggest that doing such may save the live of this pow, but has a legitimate potential to threaten the lives of multiple americans if these guys return to their previous ways. It'd be one thing if you were just criticizing those who may go over the top, suggesting obama is actively trying to "help the enemy" or something like this...but you're criticisms seem simply pointed at anyone who dares suggeset the president acted wrongly here.

Its entirely legitimate to be upset and voice grievance over the president for a wanton violation of the law. Regardless of him doing a signing statement claiming he thinks the law is unconstitutional, the fact is he signed the bill into law...meaning it is law. The president does not have fiat power to simply declare something constitutional or not. There is nothing wrong, what so ever, in expressing anger or antipathy towards the administration for a violation of the law.

Your anger at other peoples hyper partisanship seems to blind you of your own, and of others. Yes, people are wrongfully attacking folks for simply being happy for the pow's family that he's free, or for the pow himself for being free. And those people are likely doing it for partisan reasons. However, there are a multitude of people attacking individuals for criticizing legitimate policy and legal aspects of this simply because they think it's unfairly being aimed at obama. They, too, are doing it primarily for partisan reasons...specifically aggression towards the partisan leans of those making the accusations. If it wasn't for that reason then equal condemnation would be tossed at those attacking folks for daring to air a legitimate grievance towards an act of foreign policy.

You sum it up by repeating your first post in this thread. I'll sum it up by highlighting your first sentence.

"this is a good thing"

that's a fine opinoin. Disagreeing with that opinion is not hyper partisan. You did not, in any way, cache that statement in specifics. You didn't say "it's a good thing" as it relates to the family. You didn't specifiy that it's a good thing specifically for the pow. You made a claim, in a broad sense, that this is a "good thing".

And that absolutely can be legitimately challenged without it being "hyper partisan" in nature. I'm sorry that it seems to bother you that people can make judgements on political issues outside of their emotional gut reaction to the event on a personal level, but it absolutely can happen. One can absolutely feel happy for the family and still think this is a bad thing in terms of policy or legality.

"it's a good thing for the family" is a hard thing to legitimately make an argument against, and attacking someone for feeling that way would be ridiculous.

"it's a good thing", full stop, broadly stated is an easy thing to legitimately make an argument against, and it's absolutely not wrong in any way to attack someone for having that opinion on an issue.

boom!!!!
 
Which idiot do you refer to?

My point is that the Bush administration was on friendly terms with the Taliban, until we invaded their country under fraud.

That's the only point, and it is relevant in any calculation as to their inherent evil, as some people get anxious about.

What will eventually happen in this Bergdahl case is that it will become public knowledge that he became a conscientious objector, either before or after he arrived in country. Most likely he understood that we invaded the country under fraud, but whatever his motivation it will become public and the debate will shift.

In a way, this reminds me a bit of the case of Ehren Watada, 1LT USA, who refused orders to Iraq and was court martialed.

Invaded under fraud??? What the...?
 
Nothing personal JMac, but read it and weep. :)

Yes, under fraud. The predicate events for that invasion were very much a false flag operation. :peace
 
If he is happy there, he could return or he could have refused to comply with American authorities.

That wasn't really an option that was given to him. You think he's got freedom of movement now? I would be extremely doubtful.

I'm going off facts that are currently presented. The facts currently presented is that he WAS a captive.

Sort of. He was a captive certainly at certain points. At other points he appears to have helped partake in the Jihad.


I have no doubt his folks are glad to have him back. That just doesn't make him any less of a turd.
 
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