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Thread: US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

  1. #431
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    Re: US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Exactly. The news now is coming up that Military command has known the location of Bergdahl for years but never staged a rescue mission because he was declared a deserter, and likely a collaborator, and they didn't want to waste good men rescuing him.

    In return reclaiming the deserter Obama has essentially released 5 Osama Bin Ladens back into the wild.


    Edit: And now it is being reported that when Bergdahl left his post (leaving the camp exposed, mind you) he also left a note renouncing his US citizenship.

    This keeps getting worse...

    I just read the same thing. Commanders on the ground knew where he was and decided not to risk any further danger to American service men and women. Obama, naw, we need something to draw attention from my non-stewardship of the American veterans.. Crap, why didn't you assholes tell me this guy would be hated by the American people? It is mind-blowingly stupid how ill-informed this President is. I mean how is it possible? How the hell can an American President be so inept?


    Tim-
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    Re: US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    2. go online and freak out about the president again, and then attack me for being glad that a POW is free.
    I'm sorry, but how exactly is it hyperpartisan for people to criticize you for legit feelings of happiness for the gentleman's family...but it's not hyperpartisan for you to complain about people criticizing Obama for a legit concern?

    I would have no issue with your claims if you were criticizing people simply for attacking those that express happiness for the family. That's absolutely legitimate. One can disagree with HOW it was done and WHO it was done for...and still be happy on a personal level for the family that got their son back.

    But you're not just criticizing them for that...you're ALSO criticizing them because they have the audacity to air legitimate greivances over something simply because there's a potential "good" personal level effect from it.

    It's entirely legitimate to suggest that trading 5 individuals who have cost american lives and have actively engaged to some degree with terrorist action for one POW, abscent all the other crap being talked about for said POW, is a poor foreign policy and defense decision. It is in no way unreasonable to suggest that doing such establishes a value of worth on the lives of American Soldiers. It is in no way unreasonable to suggest that doing such may save the live of this POW, but has a legitimate potential to threaten the lives of multiple Americans if these guys return to their previous ways. It'd be one thing if you were just criticizing those who may go over the top, suggesting Obama is actively trying to "help the enemy" or something like this...but you're criticisms seem simply pointed at anyone who dares suggeset the President acted wrongly here.

    Its entirely legitimate to be upset and voice grievance over the President for a wanton violation of the law. Regardless of him doing a signing statement claiming he thinks the law is unconstitutional, the fact is he signed the bill into law...meaning it IS law. The President does not have fiat power to simply declare something constitutional or not. There is nothing wrong, what so ever, in expressing anger or antipathy towards the administration for a violation of the law.

    Your anger at other peoples hyper partisanship seems to blind you of your own, and of others. Yes, people are wrongfully attacking folks for simply being happy for the POW's family that he's free, or for the POW himself for being free. And those people are likely doing it for partisan reasons. However, there are a multitude of people attacking individuals for criticizing legitimate policy and legal aspects of this simply because they think it's unfairly being aimed at Obama. They, too, are doing it primarily for partisan reasons...specifically aggression TOWARDS the partisan leans of those making the accusations. If it wasn't for that reason then equal condemnation would be tossed at those attacking folks for daring to air a legitimate grievance towards an act of foreign policy.

    You sum it up by repeating your first post in this thread. I'll sum it up by highlighting your first sentence.

    "This is a good thing"

    That's a fine opinoin. Disagreeing with that opinion is not hyper partisan. You did not, in any way, cache that statement in specifics. You didn't say "it's a good thing" as it relates to the family. You didn't specifiy that it's a good thing specifically for the POW. You made a claim, in a BROAD sense, that this is a "good thing".

    And that absolutely can be legitimately challenged without it being "hyper partisan" in nature. I'm sorry that it seems to bother you that people can make judgements on political issues outside of their emotional gut reaction to the event on a personal level, but it absolutely can happen. One can absolutely feel happy for the family and still think this is a bad thing in terms of policy or legality.

    "It's a good thing for the family" is a hard thing to legitimately make an argument against, and attacking someone for feeling that way would be ridiculous.

    "It's a good thing", full stop, broadly stated is an easy thing to legitimately make an argument against, and it's absolutely not wrong in any way to attack someone for having that opinion on an issue.

  3. #433
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    Re: US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    "It's a good thing for the family" is a hard thing to legitimately make an argument against, and attacking someone for feeling that way would be ridiculous.

    "It's a good thing", full stop, broadly stated is an easy thing to legitimately make an argument against, and it's absolutely not wrong in any way to attack someone for having that opinion on an issue.

    The only thing I would add to this is that, I doubt it is a good thing for the family if one considers that this deserter will basically be giving up one prison for another, and if one believes the testimony that Bergdahl was in fact in cohorts with the enemy, one might argue that trading for an American jail was perhaps the worst thing for the family.

    Tim-
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    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    The only thing I would add to this is that, I doubt it is a good thing for the family if one considers that this deserter will basically be giving up one prison for another
    There's a chance he won't end up in prison here. There was no chance he would not end up in captivity there (because he was).

    The family WILL/IS getting a chance to see, talk to, embrace their son again. There was no chance for that to happen while in afghanistan.

    Sorry Hicup, but I don't see any way one can make that claim other than to simply use it as a hollow excuse to bang the drum about this guy alledgedly being a desert once again.

    You're talking about a lot of bad things that might happen here as opposed to the similar bad things unquestionably happening there, while at the same time ignoring the good things that are definitely happening here that would not be happening there.

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    Re: US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    There's a chance he won't end up in prison here. There was no chance he would not end up in captivity there (because he was).

    The family WILL/IS getting a chance to see, talk to, embrace their son again. There was no chance for that to happen while in afghanistan.

    Sorry Hicup, but I don't see any way one can make that claim other than to simply use it as a hollow excuse to bang the drum about this guy alledgedly being a desert once again.

    You're talking about a lot of bad things that might happen here as opposed to the similar bad things unquestionably happening there, while at the same time ignoring the good things that are definitely happening here that would not be happening there.

    Hehe, well forgive me, but aren't you doing exactly the same thing?

    How do YOU know he wasn't happy there, and his fellow jihadists simply threw him under the bus for the leadership reunion party? How do YOU know anything, or even enough o say that what I speculate is any less worthy of consideration than your speculation? Do you honestly think with the notoriety this has achieved in literally a day, that Obama is just going to let this guy walk scott-free without a trial?

    Naw, even he's NOT that stupid.


    By the way, you say things like unquestionably, yet say allegedly he was a deserter. I think your rush to be the moderate voice in all of this is clouding your judgment. Rather, I would say that he allegedly had it bad there (Although from the pics I saw I don't know how you could make that claim) but he most certainly was a deserter. Not the other way round as you would have intimated.


    Tim-
    Last edited by Hicup; 06-03-14 at 03:16 PM.
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    Re: US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    How do YOU know he wasn't happy there, and his fellow jihadists simply threw him under the bus for the leadership reunion party?
    If he is happy there, he could return or he could have refused to comply with American authorities.

    I think you're being wholey dishonest if you're suggesting stating he was in captivity there is somehow "speculating" on the same degree, or even speculation at all, as saying he'll be imprisoned here.

    I'm going off facts that are currently presented. The facts currently presented is that he WAS a captive. The facts currently presented is that he's alledgedly a deserter. One of those results in 100% certainty of being in captivity, one does not. That's simply a fact.

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    Re: US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If he is happy there, he could return or he could have refused to comply with American authorities.
    Or, he could be the good jihadist and following orders.


    I think you're being wholey dishonest if you're suggesting stating he was in captivity there is somehow "speculating" on the same degree, or even speculation at all, as saying he'll be imprisoned here.
    This doesn't even make sense, but if I think I know what you're trying to say, may I offer that you have no idea if he was in captivity. Captivity suggest being held against one's will. You, nor I know whether he was a willing soldier for the Taliban, and only a tribunal will vet that out. So yeah, Zyph you're speculation is still speculation, as is mine.

    I'm going off facts that are currently presented. The facts currently presented is that he WAS a captive.

    Not a fact... One could easily say he went on walkabout and was simply found, exploited and used, and then dumped on to an mind-blowingly stupid and inept President desperate for anything to take the news off the VA scandal.


    The facts currently presented is that he's alledgedly a deserter. One of those results in 100% certainty of being in captivity, one does not. That's simply a fact.
    No, in fact there is no testimony from ANYONE that he wasn't a deserter, FACT! Fact, you nor I know if he was an unwilling captive, period!


    Tim-
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    Re: US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Or, he could be the good jihadist and following orders.
    In which case it's still "good for him" since he'd be wanting to follow those orders as a good jihadist

    Not a fact... One could easily say he went on walkabout and was simply found, exploited and used, and then dumped on to an mind-blowingly stupid and inept President desperate for anything to take the news off the VA scandal.
    I'm sorry, but I have any desire to deal with tin foil hat types. There's absolutely zero reason, at this point, to believe he wasn't held captive or was anything other than a POW. Could one "speculate" otherwise? Sure, about as much as one could "speculate" that George Bush order the twin towers to be brought down. You can "speculate" about anything. If it's reasonable speculation is an entirely different thing.

    No, in fact there is no testimony from ANYONE that he wasn't a deserter, FACT!
    Doesn't matter if there's no testimony from anyone that he wasn't deserter. He's an American Citizen that would be tried under American law...he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. As it stands, it's ALLEDGED that he's a deserter, and being an alledged deserter does not present a 100% chance of being put into captivity no matter how badly you want to spin it.

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    Re: US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I just read the same thing. Commanders on the ground knew where he was and decided not to risk any further danger to American service men and women. Obama, naw, we need something to draw attention from my non-stewardship of the American veterans.. Crap, why didn't you assholes tell me this guy would be hated by the American people? It is mind-blowingly stupid how ill-informed this President is. I mean how is it possible? How the hell can an American President be so inept?


    Tim-
    Nice post......glad the guy is coming home......but the timing and cost of this swap is suspect at best.......our Dear Leader looks more and more inept.....

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    Re: US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm sorry, but how exactly is it hyperpartisan for people to criticize you for legit feelings of happiness for the gentleman's family...but it's not hyperpartisan for you to complain about people criticizing Obama for a legit concern?

    I would have no issue with your claims if you were criticizing people simply for attacking those that express happiness for the family. That's absolutely legitimate. One can disagree with HOW it was done and WHO it was done for...and still be happy on a personal level for the family that got their son back.

    But you're not just criticizing them for that...you're ALSO criticizing them because they have the audacity to air legitimate greivances over something simply because there's a potential "good" personal level effect from it.

    It's entirely legitimate to suggest that trading 5 individuals who have cost american lives and have actively engaged to some degree with terrorist action for one POW, abscent all the other crap being talked about for said POW, is a poor foreign policy and defense decision. It is in no way unreasonable to suggest that doing such establishes a value of worth on the lives of American Soldiers. It is in no way unreasonable to suggest that doing such may save the live of this POW, but has a legitimate potential to threaten the lives of multiple Americans if these guys return to their previous ways. It'd be one thing if you were just criticizing those who may go over the top, suggesting Obama is actively trying to "help the enemy" or something like this...but you're criticisms seem simply pointed at anyone who dares suggeset the President acted wrongly here.

    Its entirely legitimate to be upset and voice grievance over the President for a wanton violation of the law. Regardless of him doing a signing statement claiming he thinks the law is unconstitutional, the fact is he signed the bill into law...meaning it IS law. The President does not have fiat power to simply declare something constitutional or not. There is nothing wrong, what so ever, in expressing anger or antipathy towards the administration for a violation of the law.

    Your anger at other peoples hyper partisanship seems to blind you of your own, and of others. Yes, people are wrongfully attacking folks for simply being happy for the POW's family that he's free, or for the POW himself for being free. And those people are likely doing it for partisan reasons. However, there are a multitude of people attacking individuals for criticizing legitimate policy and legal aspects of this simply because they think it's unfairly being aimed at Obama. They, too, are doing it primarily for partisan reasons...specifically aggression TOWARDS the partisan leans of those making the accusations. If it wasn't for that reason then equal condemnation would be tossed at those attacking folks for daring to air a legitimate grievance towards an act of foreign policy.

    You sum it up by repeating your first post in this thread. I'll sum it up by highlighting your first sentence.

    "This is a good thing"

    That's a fine opinoin. Disagreeing with that opinion is not hyper partisan. You did not, in any way, cache that statement in specifics. You didn't say "it's a good thing" as it relates to the family. You didn't specifiy that it's a good thing specifically for the POW. You made a claim, in a BROAD sense, that this is a "good thing".

    And that absolutely can be legitimately challenged without it being "hyper partisan" in nature. I'm sorry that it seems to bother you that people can make judgements on political issues outside of their emotional gut reaction to the event on a personal level, but it absolutely can happen. One can absolutely feel happy for the family and still think this is a bad thing in terms of policy or legality.

    "It's a good thing for the family" is a hard thing to legitimately make an argument against, and attacking someone for feeling that way would be ridiculous.

    "It's a good thing", full stop, broadly stated is an easy thing to legitimately make an argument against, and it's absolutely not wrong in any way to attack someone for having that opinion on an issue.
    it's the way it was done and the timeline. before we really knew anything, the reaction was not one of "POW freed, this is good." it was instantly made political, and the character assassination of this dude started within hours.

    i don't know what they're going to find on the guy. i don't care anymore. the whole thing has pissed me off so much that at this point, i just want out of this thread. i'm going to make that happen right now.

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