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Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

Don't know if it was or not, nor do you

You are right but I didn't post that it has been going on for a long time either like you did.
 
I really doubt that simply changing up the guy in charge is going to solve the problem. Failing to care for our vets has been the status quo for more than a decade. It's something congress needs to address. It needs to alter the priorities and structure of the program, and make sure it's properly funded. If it takes 10 months for someone to get an appointment, then there needs to be more doctors for them to see.

The VA belongs to the Executive Branch. Why do you people always throw everything off on Congress?
 
I really doubt that simply changing up the guy in charge is going to solve the problem. Failing to care for our vets has been the status quo for more than a decade. It's something congress needs to address. It needs to alter the priorities and structure of the program, and make sure it's properly funded. If it takes 10 months for someone to get an appointment, then there needs to be more doctors for them to see.

The VA belongs to the Executive Branch. Why do you people always throw everything off on Congress?

"Priorities and structure of the program" are management responsibilities in the executive branch. Congress can increase funding if needed.:peace
 
I just hope this isn't the end of this. The media and public need to keep pressure on the Administration to follow through on this.

Of course this is the end. Everything that's going to be done, has ben done. No more resignations, or firings and sure as hell no criminal investigations.
 
The problems pre-date Bush by a far margin. To try to blame this on one man or party is nothing more then childish partisanship at it's worst.

If the problems predated Bush by a wide margin, which means Clinton at least, why has nothing been done? Is there no accountability to anyone anywhere any longer? Since it now falls on Obama to fix these problems, then it's about time they got fixed, don't you think? Why aren't there enough doctors? Don't they pay them enough to keep them? The IRS has enough people to do their job, why doesn't the VA? Waiting 10 months to see a doctor? This is a disgrace to our Country!

Greetings, BMCM. :2wave:
 
Of course this is the end. Everything that's going to be done, has ben done. No more resignations, or firings and sure as hell no criminal investigations.


Yeah, its likely this will be it and we'll here "We're aggressively reforming the VA" which will be nothing more than throwing money at it. Pretty damned clear that money isn't the issue considering the increase in the VA's budget over the last decade or so. Sadly, the main problem is simply ability to get rid of substandard employees. Its inherently difficult to fire a federal employee.
 
Shinseki's basically taking the fall for years of mismanagement. Crappy way to end an outstanding career.

Shinseki was a part of that mismanagement.
 
Shinseki was a part of that mismanagement.

The last part, yes. He's been held to account, so...

Personally, I think the whole VA system is probably a bad idea. Run it like medicare - go to private doctors and pay them. It's part of why completely socialized medicine is a bad idea.
 
The last part, yes. He's been held to account, so...

Personally, I think the whole VA system is probably a bad idea. Run it like medicare - go to private doctors and pay them. It's part of why completely socialized medicine is a bad idea.

He hasn't been held to account. He resigned, no doubt with full benefits, which means he's collecting two fat taxpayer funded retirements.
 
He hasn't been held to account. He resigned, no doubt with full benefits, which means he's collecting two fat taxpayer funded retirements.

That's how it works. Nobody gets fired because Presidents end up in trouble for that. Marbury v. Madison was about that and Andrew Johnson's impeachment was about that in part as well.
 
Shinseki was a part of that mismanagement.

The VA apparently has had problems for a long time. Bureaucracies have lots of inertia so it's probably unrealistic to expect that any could fix it in the short term.

More generally, and I don't know how much of this applies in this specific case, we vest too much in the man at the top. We seem to think that the guy charge knows everything that goes on and is personally accountable for all the bad things that go on. We expect them to be omniscient and that just isn't how the real world of large organizations works. We need to throw someone under the bus and the guy at the top is probably as good as anyone else but if it stops there nothing changes.
 
That's how it works. Nobody gets fired because Presidents end up in trouble for that. Marbury v. Madison was about that and Andrew Johnson's impeachment was about that in part as well.

Andrew Johnson was impeached under a law that was appealed in 1887.
 
He hasn't been held to account. He resigned, no doubt with full benefits, which means he's collecting two fat taxpayer funded retirements.

What do you think would be appropriate? Should we go back and ding every VA administrator for the past 20 or 30 years?

The man's career is over. He did serve his country honorably. I'd leave it at that.
 
The VA apparently has had problems for a long time. Bureaucracies have lots of inertia so it's probably unrealistic to expect that any could fix it in the short term.

More generally, and I don't know how much of this applies in this specific case, we vest too much in the man at the top. We seem to think that the guy charge knows everything that goes on and is personally accountable for all the bad things that go on. We expect them to be omniscient and that just isn't how the real world of large organizations works. We need to throw someone under the bus and the guy at the top is probably as good as anyone else but if it stops there nothing changes.

On Shinseki's watch there wasn't even improvement, much less a fix. It might have even gotten worse. Those two things mean that Shinseki was part of the problem.
 
I think the lesson is still there though.

Not really. An appointee should be able to be fired as quick as he got hired.

I mean, let's face it: nobody would have bitched if Obama fired Shinseki.
 
On Shinseki's watch there wasn't even improvement, much less a fix. It might have even gotten worse. Those two things mean that Shinseki was part of the problem.

It was a problem that has been compounded for decades. It wasn't Shinseki's SOLE fault. If you want to hold him accountable, you would first have to go back to every other VA head and do the same less you want this just to be partisan hackery.
 
Not really. An appointee should be able to be fired as quick as he got hired.

I mean, let's face it: nobody would have bitched if Obama fired Shinseki.

He might have. Then a few House members would probably take up his cause because "Obama bad!"

And they're not hired quickly at that level. Senate confirmation and what not...on the other hand, I wouldn't have a problem with having it go through the reverse to fire him. Send it to the Senate that you want to fire an appointee and let them have hearings. It does take longer than a resignation though.
 
Not really. An appointee should be able to be fired as quick as he got hired.

I mean, let's face it: nobody would have bitched if Obama fired Shinseki.

It's the same reason a CEO that fails isn't typically fired and is instead given a golden parachute. It is simple the way things are. I don't exactly see you wanting the heads of every other VA head before Shinseki on a pike.
 
It's the same reason a CEO that fails isn't typically fired and is instead given a golden parachute. It is simple the way things are. I don't exactly see you wanting the heads of every other VA head before Shinseki on a pike.

Some CEO'S are outright **** canned, without a pot to piss in. The difference being, Joe Blow CEO doesn't work for me. A government officee does work for me. I won't stand silently by why a person ****s over American veterans in my name.
 
It was a problem that has been compounded for decades. It wasn't Shinseki's SOLE fault. If you want to hold him accountable, you would first have to go back to every other VA head and do the same less you want this just to be partisan hackery.

Was there ANY improvement in the system while Shinseki was in charge? If there wasn't, then yes, he's at fault.
 
I won't stand silently by why a person ****s over American veterans in my name.

Well have fun with your faux outrage. did you stand silently with the previous VA heads? I don't remember one post from you regarding those folks and they were as much to blame for the continuing blunders.
 
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