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Thread: Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

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    Re: Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Shinseki was a part of that mismanagement.
    The last part, yes. He's been held to account, so...

    Personally, I think the whole VA system is probably a bad idea. Run it like medicare - go to private doctors and pay them. It's part of why completely socialized medicine is a bad idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The last part, yes. He's been held to account, so...

    Personally, I think the whole VA system is probably a bad idea. Run it like medicare - go to private doctors and pay them. It's part of why completely socialized medicine is a bad idea.
    He hasn't been held to account. He resigned, no doubt with full benefits, which means he's collecting two fat taxpayer funded retirements.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    He hasn't been held to account. He resigned, no doubt with full benefits, which means he's collecting two fat taxpayer funded retirements.
    That's how it works. Nobody gets fired because Presidents end up in trouble for that. Marbury v. Madison was about that and Andrew Johnson's impeachment was about that in part as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Shinseki was a part of that mismanagement.
    The VA apparently has had problems for a long time. Bureaucracies have lots of inertia so it's probably unrealistic to expect that any could fix it in the short term.

    More generally, and I don't know how much of this applies in this specific case, we vest too much in the man at the top. We seem to think that the guy charge knows everything that goes on and is personally accountable for all the bad things that go on. We expect them to be omniscient and that just isn't how the real world of large organizations works. We need to throw someone under the bus and the guy at the top is probably as good as anyone else but if it stops there nothing changes.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    That's how it works. Nobody gets fired because Presidents end up in trouble for that. Marbury v. Madison was about that and Andrew Johnson's impeachment was about that in part as well.
    Andrew Johnson was impeached under a law that was appealed in 1887.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    He hasn't been held to account. He resigned, no doubt with full benefits, which means he's collecting two fat taxpayer funded retirements.
    What do you think would be appropriate? Should we go back and ding every VA administrator for the past 20 or 30 years?

    The man's career is over. He did serve his country honorably. I'd leave it at that.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Andrew Johnson was impeached under a law that was appealed in 1887.
    I think the lesson is still there though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    The VA apparently has had problems for a long time. Bureaucracies have lots of inertia so it's probably unrealistic to expect that any could fix it in the short term.

    More generally, and I don't know how much of this applies in this specific case, we vest too much in the man at the top. We seem to think that the guy charge knows everything that goes on and is personally accountable for all the bad things that go on. We expect them to be omniscient and that just isn't how the real world of large organizations works. We need to throw someone under the bus and the guy at the top is probably as good as anyone else but if it stops there nothing changes.
    On Shinseki's watch there wasn't even improvement, much less a fix. It might have even gotten worse. Those two things mean that Shinseki was part of the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I think the lesson is still there though.
    Not really. An appointee should be able to be fired as quick as he got hired.

    I mean, let's face it: nobody would have bitched if Obama fired Shinseki.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Embattled VA chief Shinseki resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    On Shinseki's watch there wasn't even improvement, much less a fix. It might have even gotten worse. Those two things mean that Shinseki was part of the problem.
    It was a problem that has been compounded for decades. It wasn't Shinseki's SOLE fault. If you want to hold him accountable, you would first have to go back to every other VA head and do the same less you want this just to be partisan hackery.

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