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Thread: North Carolina GOP Pushes Unprecedented Bill to Jail Anyone Who Discloses Fracking C

  1. #31
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    Re: North Carolina GOP Pushes Unprecedented Bill to Jail Anyone Who Discloses Frackin

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Extremely good question: The government. Google CERCLA and then Google EPCRA and then read them. Many of your concerns will be answered. As for disclosing the chemicals used, Google SARA (Superfund Amendments and Reauthorization Act - which is the other name for CERCLA) Title III Reporting to see exactly what those companies have been required to do and have been doing since 1986. I think you'll be surprised. It goes against the anti-fracking rhetoric that they are secretly pumping poison into our water. There's no secret cover-up. The government knows exactly what they're doing, and what they are doing it with.
    Honestly let's just cut to the chase. I am not going to google all that. This bill is exactly designed to stop whistleblowers. Period. Man just think what would have happened if the State Department or VA had some kind of protections
    like this.

    You can trust corporations, but sorry I don't when it comes to the environment.

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    Re: North Carolina GOP Pushes Unprecedented Bill to Jail Anyone Who Discloses Frackin

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Natural Resource Management....

    So, at the University of Colorado, an NRM degree is described as follows:

    Natural Resources Management Degrees

    The goal of the natural resources management major is to provide students with a broad-based understanding of the interconnectedness of social, political, and ecological systems. This knowledge will enable students to design sustainable solutions to address natural resource conservation and management problems. Students will learn about natural resource stewardship in both theory and practice, with an eye toward designing systems that are adaptable and resilient in light of the social and ecological complexity and change that characterize today’s challenges.

    So perhaps you can help. Where would did you find the real focus of this education be? Social, Political, or Ecological? I see lots about management, policy and engagement, but really nothing about geologic engineering, or even chemical engineering for that matter.

    Perhaps I've missed something.
    Really? I took s hell o f alot of geology, couple of courses in hydrology, tons of bio, botany, forestry, chemistry, organic chemistry, and I have a huge interest in epidemiology so continue to study that.

    How does one manage what one does not understand? How does one create solutions for things they dont understand? And regarding policy....we studied the impacts of policies, politics, and industry...We studied things like how much of the 'Green Revolution' was a failure...it was not a one-sided agenda. So I'm pretty sure you did miss something.

    I also did a a couple of yrs into an Environmental Hygiene degree...was at the time looking into getting into the environmental consulting industry.

    (That wasnt my course description of course.)
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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  3. #33
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    North Carolina GOP Pushes Unprecedented Bill to Jail Anyone Who Discloses Fra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Really? I took s hell o f alot of geology, couple of courses in hydrology, tons of bio, botany, forestry, chemistry, organic chemistry, and I have a huge interest in epidemiology so continue to study that.

    How does one manage what one does not understand? How does one create solutions for things they dont understand? And regarding policy....we studied the impacts of policies, politics, and industry...We studied things like how much of the 'Green Revolution' was a failure...it was not a one-sided agenda. So I'm pretty sure you did miss something.

    I also did a a couple of yrs into an Environmental Hygiene degree...was at the time looking into getting into the environmental consulting industry.

    (That wasnt my course description of course.)
    OK then. Tell me how the fracking solution injected into shale 5,000 feet below the water table contaminates the water. What geological mechanism would be responsible for that phenomenon?
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  4. #34
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    Re: North Carolina GOP Pushes Unprecedented Bill to Jail Anyone Who Discloses Frackin

    seems your sources are not all that definitive to your claims of no problema...


    The National Energy Technology Laboratory in Pittsburgh monitored wells for a year by injecting special tracers into fracking fluid to see whether any chemicals migrated up towards drinking water. Researchers found that the fracking fluid stayed nearly a mile below drinking water supplies.

    “This is good news,” said Duke University scientist Rob Jackson, but warned that a single study does not prove fracking can’t ever pollute since industry drilling practices vary widely throughout Pennsylvania and the country.
    Read more: Energy Department: Fracking doesn



    So what is the truth?

    Can drilling for natural gas contaminate drinking water? Yes.
    Is hydraulic fracturing to blame? No.

    Bottom line: water contamination does happen, but not because of hydraulic fracturing. The MIT Future of Natural Gas Study, released in June 2011, examines the causes of 43 reported environmental incidents and finds that, “no incidents of direct invasion of shallow water zones by fracture fluids during the fracturing process have been recorded.”

    So what causes the contamination? According to the study, “almost 50% [of the incidents were] the result of drilling operations… most frequently related to inadequate cementing of casing into wellbores.” The table below is from the Future of Natural Gas Study and highlights the frequency and causes of incidents.
    Guest Post: Water Contamination – Fracking is not the problem | Plugged In, Scientific American Blog Network

    So ground water contamination—according your sources—does happen through the fracking process and no long term studies have yet to been definitive.
    Last edited by 1750Texan; 05-30-14 at 07:53 PM.


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    Re: North Carolina GOP Pushes Unprecedented Bill to Jail Anyone Who Discloses Frackin

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    seems your sources are not all that definitive to your claims of no problema...



    Read more: Energy Department: Fracking doesn




    Guest Post: Water Contamination – Fracking is not the problem | Plugged In, Scientific American Blog Network

    So ground water contamination—according your sources—does happen through the fracking process and no long term studies have yet to been definitive.
    It states definitively that fracking, itself, isn't the cause.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  6. #36
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    Re: North Carolina GOP Pushes Unprecedented Bill to Jail Anyone Who Discloses Frackin

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    If they find chemicals in his drinking water, how do they know where to find where they came from and stop it?

    How do they even know what to look for? Not everything shows up in testing.....
    Extremely good question. If a mass spectrograph is used, then yes, it will show up. The government has on file all the materials used by industry. They can track it down. The LEPC (local emergency planning committee) for each county, as well as the SERC (state emergency response commission) have the Tier I and Tier II reports from every industry that either stores or uses a reportable quantity of regulated hazardous materials.

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    Re: North Carolina GOP Pushes Unprecedented Bill to Jail Anyone Who Discloses Frackin

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager1 View Post
    Honestly let's just cut to the chase. I am not going to google all that. This bill is exactly designed to stop whistleblowers. Period. Man just think what would have happened if the State Department or VA had some kind of protections
    like this.

    You can trust corporations, but sorry I don't when it comes to the environment.
    This has nothing to do with trust or whistleblowers. It has to do with making sure that people from each NC county that are members of the LEPC's (local emergency planning committee's), which in many cases contains environmental activists (which is not a bad thing) do not disclose corporate confidential trade secrets which they have access to only by virtue of their position as a member of an LEPC, which as I said before is already against federal law (the ones I gave you to look up) to disclose.

    I really don't think this is going anywhere. At this time, it's just a proposal, and not a bill. Even if it gets to be a bill, then it will be amended to mirror the federal law, that is if they haven't done that already, before it passes which if it does will not change a thing other than allowing the state to prosecute rather than just the feds. There have been a number of criminal cases brought against LEPC members and civil cases brought against their county's for disclosing trade secret information, most on a federal level. This would give the state of NC the ability to do the same and give standing in state court for these cases.

    People have a right to know what may affect them if there's a chance they could be effected by a release into the environment. I agree with that, and even if I didn't, it's the law and has been for the last 28 years. But... you, the general public, do not have the right to know trade secrets of corporations that are not harming them, no matter how scarey you think that trade secret may be. The LEPC, the SERC (state emergency response commission) and the US EPA have the lists, and they know what is where and how much. They are also sworn under pain of law to not disclose those trade secrets outside their official duties. This law makes it a state felony offense, not just a federal felony offense which it already is and has been for the last 28 years...

    So like I said in my first post - this is getting blown way out of proportion, since it already exists, has existed for 28 years, and is a federal offense anyway. The only reason it's getting any media attention is: 1) it's a couple NC Republicans, and 2) it's about fracking. Both are hot topics right now with the left, hence the hyperbolic media attention.

    As an aside, I don't care if you look it up or not. I was just trying to give you the facts so that the next time you discuss this issue you can do so from a position of educated intelligence rather than ideological ignorance lead by media inaccuracies. No disrespect intended, I'm truly attempting to help you out here.

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    Re: North Carolina GOP Pushes Unprecedented Bill to Jail Anyone Who Discloses Frackin

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    They're injecting this **** into the ground, putting my drinking water at risk. Yeah, I have a right to know what they're shoving in there.
    We're through. The GOP lost its collective mind in 2008 and today we're too mentally unstable to lead America. I would have never imagined we'd become the party of the politically insane.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    Re: North Carolina GOP Pushes Unprecedented Bill to Jail Anyone Who Discloses Frackin

    Could the chemicals have been spilled or from some other source?

    Do you know as a fact they came from the underground fracking process?

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    Re: North Carolina GOP Pushes Unprecedented Bill to Jail Anyone Who Discloses Frackin

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Really? I took s hell o f alot of geology, couple of courses in hydrology, tons of bio, botany, forestry, chemistry, organic chemistry, and I have a huge interest in epidemiology so continue to study that.

    How does one manage what one does not understand? How does one create solutions for things they dont understand? And regarding policy....we studied the impacts of policies, politics, and industry...We studied things like how much of the 'Green Revolution' was a failure...it was not a one-sided agenda. So I'm pretty sure you did miss something.

    I also did a a couple of yrs into an Environmental Hygiene degree...was at the time looking into getting into the environmental consulting industry.

    (That wasnt my course description of course.)
    Interesting.

    You see, it seems to me, we've allowed people to claim they are experts in areas they have little to no real experience or knowledge and despite these glaring voids in qualifications, allow them to set agenda's and National policies which carry significant economic impact on citizens.

    For example, we allow people who are not Chemical Engineers to determine what happens with chemicals We allow people who are not geologists to claim a couple courses in geology is sufficient to declare processes that involve geology to be unsafe.

    While it's certainly appropriate for everyone to voice an opinion, it's a bit ridiculous to allow amateurs to suggest they are experts, and allow them to set the agenda.

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