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Thread: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

  1. #41
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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Not surprising, given that nobody has conducted any studies that would show such a thing ."
    Yeah, they have.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    This article makes the claim that "gay men" are more attuned parents than either sex of the heterosexual alone. Interesting?
    Here's a link to the published research article in PNAS:

    Father's brain is sensitive to childcare experiences

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Except many of these kids are adopted out of our abysmal foster care or from single parent trailer trash. If you think growing up in that environment is better, i don't know what to tell ya. Also your classmates, if they found out, would get used to it and bored and move on to the next target. It's the 'weird' kids that get bullied endlessly.
    I've always been confused about this idea that having "different than normal" parents gets a child significantly more teasing than simply being weird yourself in some way. If we went with that logic, that having abnormal parents because it could lead to extra teasing is a valid reason for not allowing certain sets of parents to raise/adopt children, then that would mean that interracial couples should not be raising children, certainly not allowed to adopt children. Couples of certain religions or with no religion at all in some places should not be allowed to raise or adopt children. That is why this logic, that a person's parents leads to them being so badly teased that it overrides a couple's right to raise children is so failed because it isn't true to begin with and it is highly discriminatory against way more people than just same sex couples.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Also in our convoluted and high pressure 'publish or perish' world, it is getting tougher and tougher for the ever increasing number of advanced degree candidates to find something new and unique as the topic of their dissertations or to be published in a scholarly journal. As a result they are really streeeeeeetching for subject matter. And it doesn't matter how small the sample used or what the researcher's conclusion is, it seems to pass for science these days.

    I remain convinced that gay parents can be very good parents and sometimes living with gay parents is the best situation for the child. And I will continue to be convinced that there is far more scientific study and evidence to show that children overall thrive best with a loving male AND female role model in the home than in any other circumstance. And the traditional family should be encouraged, supported, and considered the norm for that reason.
    Actually the traditional family, as Americans understand it, is incredibly unnatural and a very recent occurance in human history. That is why I find the "pro traditional" arguments to be rather ludicrous. Humans naturally form families of extended families living together or tribes and it is that set up which leads to the best outcome for children. This notion of the nuclear family that lives seperately from the rest of the family is not the healthiest situation for children, and yet people want to spout this ridiculous line of A mother and A father role is where children thrive best based on nothing more than statistics of nuclear families compared to single parent families. It is not the "best' for children.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    What I find striking from this study and any like it though is that these social researchers aren't doing themselves any favors, because showing adaptability whether emotionally or sexually adds to the environmental causation argument for sexuality. I'd like to see this done on young adults without children to compare data.


    Tim-
    I'm unclear why that would be a bad thing. I've got a gay brother. I have no idea, and don't really care, WHY he's gay. What I do know is he's not ever going to be straight. He tried, and he just IS gay - the reason why a mystery but functionally irrelevant. I suspect there is a bit of genetics and environment - for example, the studies seem to show that if one twin is gay, the other is more LIKELY to be gay but is often straight. But I just see no evidence that sexual orientation can be changed once set, at least for more than a VERY tiny minority of individuals. And it's that latter observation that drives my conclusions about public policy for homosexuals.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Not necessarily. Take another look at the last paragraph in your quote.

    This study doesn't necessarily show that this trait is innate -- although some brain differences in gay people are, and there might be a component of that in here somewhere. But rather, it says that their brain configures this way over time as the two parents share the roles more evenly.

    Our brains are changing all the time based on what we do, so here's my question.

    Do the less extreme gender expectations and divisions of gay relationships, and thus the more equal sharing of parenting duties, cause more balanced parenting and more balanced brains for each parent? That's the real question this is presenting.

    I'd like to see whether similar role sharing in heterosexual couples causes the same brain building. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't, at least to some degree.

    If it does, it says an awful lot about the work our culture has to do yet on gender relations.
    One clue: in gay fathers, but not heterosexual ones, the brain also had extra communication lines between emotional and cognitive structures. The more time a man spent as primary caregiver, the greater the connectivity. It was as if playing both parental roles caused the brain to integrate the structures required for each.

    I'm looking at the last paragraph in the OP quote and it says, "in gay fathers, not heterosexual ones" as if they studied both? Maybe gay fathers are more attuned to their feminine, nurturing side allowing for more of the emotional and cognitive structures suited for playing both parental roles?
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    No, the study made great effort to point out that it had NO freaking idea how or if hormones in pre and post natal development play any significant role in the similarities detected. Further, the areas looked at in the brain are areas that are most certainly affected by learning and cognitive processes if we assume emotional response to stimuli are cognitive. We also know that these areas of the brain are "lit-up" in sub-conscious states, and there has been a great deal of debate as to the significance of our sub-conscious on our cognitive states. In all, although interesting, the study fails in it's methodology because it cannot control for known variables because the variables are not known to begin with; that is, hormonal influence on these areas and brain development, and how cognition, sub-conscious or otherwise, manifests and permeates throughout the brain.


    Tim-

    Well if it occurs, either way it's involuntary. And according to the study, it does occur and provides supporting nurturing and child-rearing behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Bleh. Id be bullied and shunned even more than I already am if I had two gay parents. I'm sure they'd be capable parents, but until the stigma is gone heterosexual parents are the better alternative (in my opinion).
    It's not about 'if'. Or choices. If you are a kid with gay parents, that's not something you can change.

    And gays are not going to stop having families, so again, it's not going to go away.

    More knowlege is good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    This particular study doesn't address the prenatal hormones (i don't know why he said so), but plenty of others have done so for years now, in various species. We're pretty damn sure that excess estrogen does lead to effeminate behavior and almost certainly these hormones combine with genetics to trigger homosexuality. It's disingenuous to ridicule this study under the pretense that the variables aren't known and then suggest the study also does "no favors" to the born gay theory. Fact is the emotional changes in these gay parents at middle age has *nothing* to do with prenatal hormones and some 'gay gene'

    There are obvious limits to 'adapting' our brains, else we'd just will ourselves to live forever. You've certainly a long ways to go to prove that young kids undergo similar emotional change that makes them gay and then for some reason cannot 'adapt' their brain to become hetero at any future time.

    If anything, i can see cultural and environment factors influencing the extent of effeminate/stereotypical behavior, since i know from experience that can and does in fact change over time, but i see no evidence anything postnatal affects the orientation itself.
    This has been my theory for years, even before it was made public. Had alot of biology classes and studied crowd stress in wildlife.

    Anyway, I wasnt aware that they had identified the hormones...do you have any links that show they believe it's estrogen? I understand that you said it's still being researched.

    And have they identified any stage(s) during fetal development when they believe the hormones have affect/the most affect? I'd be interested in reading your sources.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I'm looking at the last paragraph in the OP quote and it says, "in gay fathers, not heterosexual ones" as if they studied both? Maybe gay fathers are more attuned to their feminine, nurturing side allowing for more of the emotional and cognitive structures suited for playing both parental roles?
    Well, that's the division I've pointed out -- how a hetero man or woman is expected or allowed to parent is different, and far more limiting. So are they spending time doing their gender roles, or spending it just being what the kid needs?

    I dunno, I'd imagine it depends on the gay guy. But I always find it a little funny when people attribute this to "femininity," given the very cold realism that many women usually face relationships and children with (and not without good reason -- they're the ones asked to give up everything). However, what we clearly see here is that neither normative role is balanced, and there's every possibility it's not natural either.

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