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Thread: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    From an article in the Journal of Marriage and Family a few years ago:


    How Does the Gender of Parents Matter? - Biblarz - 2010 - Journal of Marriage and Family - Wiley Online Library
    Volume 72, Issue 1, pages 3–22, February 2010

    "The entrenched conviction that children need both a mother and a father inflames culture wars over single motherhood, divorce, gay marriage, and gay parenting. Research to date, however, does not support this claim. Contrary to popular belief, studies have not shown that "compared to all other family forms, families headed by married, biological parents are best for children" (Popenoe, quoted in Center for Marriage and Family, p. 1).


    Research has not identified any gender-exclusive parenting abilities (with the partial exception of lactation). Our analysis confirms an emerging consensus among prominent researchers of fathering and child development. The third edition of Lamb's (1997) authoritative anthology directly reversed the inaugural volume's premise when it concluded that "very little about the gender of the parent seems to be distinctly important" (p. 10). Likewise, in Fatherneed, Pruett (2000), a prominent advocate of involved fathering, confided, "I also now realize that most of the enduring parental skills are probably, in the end, not dependent on gender" (p. 18)."

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceist View Post
    "The entrenched conviction that children need both a mother and a father inflames culture wars over single motherhood, divorce, gay marriage, and gay parenting. Research to date, however, does not support this claim. Contrary to popular belief, studies have not shown that "compared to all other family forms, families headed by married, biological parents are best for children" (Popenoe, quoted in Center for Marriage and Family, p. 1).
    Not surprising, given that nobody has conducted any studies that would show such a thing -- I'll be sure to file this one away with "studies have not shown that children are better off being raised by their married, biological parents than by a pair of gay kangaroos."

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Rachel was hot for him, if I remember that episode right. Freddie Prinze Junior played the nanny. I don't think he was gay.

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Found it on Friends Wiki:

    Ross and Rachel are looking for a new nanny and Ross is surprised when a male nanny named Sandy has applied. Rachel loves him and despite Ross being uncomfortable with it, allows her to hire him. Sandy is shown to be overly sensitive, crying after they hire him and crying with Rachel when he explains how he propsed to his fiance. He also plays the flute and holds puppet shows. Joey also takes a liking to him. Ross eventually fires him because he's too sensitive but ends up confiding in him after explaining how his dad was tough on him as a kid for playing with dinosaurs instead of sports.



    But even better, I found this. Did you know there is a website where you can find a "manny" in NYC?

    NYC Mannies
    Yea, that was more my take on it. Rachel wanted him as a nanny real bad, I don't think she was hot for him. They never indicated he was gay, only in touch with his nurturing feminine side.

    Men don't have to be gay to be sensitive or as capable of raising children as single parents, though it's not as common. I live next to a recently divorced young guy and his 5-6yr old boy screams his brains out, while the father just tries to placate him, with no discipline. The little boy is confused and upset about his parents not living together, but there comes a point when you've got to say 'enough' with the temper tantrums.

    This guy isn't sensitive or a Manny, he's a wet piece of milk-toast.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceist View Post
    No, this is referring to how hormones affect how brain structures develop in utero. This isn't about brain plasticity / learned behavior.
    eg:


    No, the study made great effort to point out that it had NO freaking idea how or if hormones in pre and post natal development play any significant role in the similarities detected. Further, the areas looked at in the brain are areas that are most certainly affected by learning and cognitive processes if we assume emotional response to stimuli are cognitive. We also know that these areas of the brain are "lit-up" in sub-conscious states, and there has been a great deal of debate as to the significance of our sub-conscious on our cognitive states. In all, although interesting, the study fails in it's methodology because it cannot control for known variables because the variables are not known to begin with; that is, hormonal influence on these areas and brain development, and how cognition, sub-conscious or otherwise, manifests and permeates throughout the brain.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Bleh. Id be bullied and shunned even more than I already am if I had two gay parents. I'm sure they'd be capable parents, but until the stigma is gone heterosexual parents are the better alternative (in my opinion).
    Except many of these kids are adopted out of our abysmal foster care or from single parent trailer trash. If you think growing up in that environment is better, i don't know what to tell ya. Also your classmates, if they found out, would get used to it and bored and move on to the next target. It's the 'weird' kids that get bullied endlessly.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    No, the study made great effort to point out that it had NO freaking idea how or if hormones in pre and post natal development play any significant role in the similarities detected. Further, the areas looked at in the brain are areas that are most certainly affected by learning and cognitive processes if we assume emotional response to stimuli are cognitive. We also know that these areas of the brain are "lit-up" in sub-conscious states, and there has been a great deal of debate as to the significance of our sub-conscious on our cognitive states. In all, although interesting, the study fails in it's methodology because it cannot control for known variables because the variables are not known to begin with; that is, hormonal influence on these areas and brain development, and how cognition, sub-conscious or otherwise, manifests and permeates throughout the brain.


    Tim-
    This particular study doesn't address the prenatal hormones (i don't know why he said so), but plenty of others have done so for years now, in various species. We're pretty damn sure that excess estrogen does lead to effeminate behavior and almost certainly these hormones combine with genetics to trigger homosexuality. It's disingenuous to ridicule this study under the pretense that the variables aren't known and then suggest the study also does "no favors" to the born gay theory. Fact is the emotional changes in these gay parents at middle age has *nothing* to do with prenatal hormones and some 'gay gene'

    There are obvious limits to 'adapting' our brains, else we'd just will ourselves to live forever. You've certainly a long ways to go to prove that young kids undergo similar emotional change that makes them gay and then for some reason cannot 'adapt' their brain to become hetero at any future time.

    If anything, i can see cultural and environment factors influencing the extent of effeminate/stereotypical behavior, since i know from experience that can and does in fact change over time, but i see no evidence anything postnatal affects the orientation itself.
    Last edited by chromium; 05-29-14 at 07:30 AM.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    This article makes the claim that "gay men" are more attuned parents than either sex of the heterosexual alone. Interesting?
    Not necessarily. Take another look at the last paragraph in your quote.

    This study doesn't necessarily show that this trait is innate -- although some brain differences in gay people are, and there might be a component of that in here somewhere. But rather, it says that their brain configures this way over time as the two parents share the roles more evenly.

    Our brains are changing all the time based on what we do, so here's my question.

    Do the less extreme gender expectations and divisions of gay relationships, and thus the more equal sharing of parenting duties, cause more balanced parenting and more balanced brains for each parent? That's the real question this is presenting.

    I'd like to see whether similar role sharing in heterosexual couples causes the same brain building. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't, at least to some degree.

    If it does, it says an awful lot about the work our culture has to do yet on gender relations.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Here's a so called "brain" study that says gay men and heterosexual women have similarly shaped brains. Does this mean that gay men are cognitively equivalent to women?



    Gay men and heterosexual women have similarly shaped brains, research shows | Science | The Guardian
    I thought it all looked familiar...your article is from 2008. Certain components could be the same like hemisphere size or hormones, but "cognitively identical" is so broad, who knows.

    To answer your other ?, I'm sure there'll come a day when orientation can be known from birth or even before with MRI or PET or whatever and that'll open some ethics debate. Last i heard though the next 'breakthru' was some experiment on sheep fetus sexuality, not humans.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Except many of these kids are adopted out of our abysmal foster care or from single parent trailer trash. If you think growing up in that environment is better, i don't know what to tell ya. Also your classmates, if they found out, would get used to it and bored and move on to the next target. It's the 'weird' kids that get bullied endlessly.
    I did not allude to being raise in a trailer park was a better alternative (note that I said "heterosexual parents"). It is a good thing that children are being adopted, my only suggestion was that those who were raised by homosexual parents would be more prone to bullying. Due to the parents raising more egalitarian children (in the homosexual parent household)...egalitarianism IS "wierd behavior" here. Supporting gay rights where I live results in being shunned, accused of being homosexual yourself, and overall teasing for years. That's simply for supporting homosexual you, let alone having two same-gender parents. I wonder where some of the studies were conducted... I'm not against gay parents, at all.
    Either I'm right or you're wrong.

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    Re: Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    No, the study made great effort to point out that it had NO freaking idea how or if hormones in pre and post natal development play any significant role in the similarities detected. Further, the areas looked at in the brain are areas that are most certainly affected by learning and cognitive processes if we assume emotional response to stimuli are cognitive. We also know that these areas of the brain are "lit-up" in sub-conscious states, and there has been a great deal of debate as to the significance of our sub-conscious on our cognitive states. In all, although interesting, the study fails in it's methodology because it cannot control for known variables because the variables are not known to begin with; that is, hormonal influence on these areas and brain development, and how cognition, sub-conscious or otherwise, manifests and permeates throughout the brain.


    Tim-
    I was responding to your comment about "showing adaptability whether emotionally or sexually adds to the environmental causation argument for sexuality".

    It doesn't.
    Last edited by Ceist; 05-29-14 at 10:03 AM.

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