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US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

I can't help but laugh everytime someone suggests that the Taliban is in touch with the people.

The Taliban are part of the population that is over there, just as white supremacists are a part of the population of the US.
 
The problem is that the US is not going to defeat the Taliban. The Taliban are part of the people that are there, many of whom that detest the US with a passion. The US presence there will not do anything to destroy that hatred. Some of the people who smile with the US are the very people behind some of the attacks. That is the problem.

definitely a big problem, once the US pulls out of air support next year, the ANA will have no airstrikes to call in. Not sure about drones, but they are more for small targeting.

I don't see any end here either
 
definitely a big problem, once the US pulls out of air support next year, the ANA will have no airstrikes to call in. Not sure about drones, but they are more for small targeting.

I don't see any end here either

That's right. To make matters worse, the US relationship with Pakistan is in very bad shape. At a result, the Taliban can attack and then retreat back across the border into Pakistan till the cows come home.
 
It's not. We have had limited humanitarian efforts in some of the countries. But our major form of interventionism is military, and we've done far more damage than good.

Arguing from a position of propaganda and hyperbole is not helpful.

I have been to Afghanistan and seen the good work that has been done. Have you.
I think you might be the one with the propaganda
 
I have been to Afghanistan and seen the good work that has been done. Have you.
I think you might be the one with the propaganda

respectfully, being there doesn't really help determine long term policy - it's helpful to see what's on the ground, but those conditions change over our 12 years too.

I'm far too old to volunteer, and while all respect has to be given to anyone who does - doesn't really mean that service can be used to determine our best move collectively
 
The "Cut and Run" president strikes again..........The job is not finished...........The Taliban will be running the country 6 weeks after we are gone.

could be, so why stay? are we supposed to "support" that country forever?
 
The "Cut and Run" president strikes again..........The job is not finished...........The Taliban will be running the country 6 weeks after we are gone.

As opposed to continuing to allow the Afghan forces to use our troops for target practice on one side while dodging bullets from the Taliban on the other? And what job? Maybe someone should define some clear objectives for once in the last 12 years. If you want us to stay then make a case with actual goals and objectives. You'd be the first and I'd be interested in hearing what another conservative armchair general has to say.
 
respectfully, being there doesn't really help determine long term policy - it's helpful to see what's on the ground, but those conditions change over our 12 years too.

I'm far too old to volunteer, and while all respect has to be given to anyone who does - doesn't really mean that service can be used to determine our best move collectively

I agree and was not saying we should be staying. What I was commenting on was a poster saying that we we should have been doing things like building roads schools and hospitals.
Being over there and seeing the money and hard work that other units were putting in to civil projects I know first hand that we were doing those things. To say otherwise speaks from ignorance.
 
That's not an argument against anything. If a person was too physically disabled to serve in the military, would that mean he has no right to a hawkish position?
So you take the time to cut out the rest of my argument then accuse me of not having an argument?

Even still, that same statement stands. It's easy to be totally Ok with perpetual war when it has no effect on your life whatsoever. We're in this situation because we've gotten so good at shielding the American people from any effect of our wars that they no longer care enough to even demand that our politicians finish them.

You can have an opinion if you're not fit for service but seeing as how you're asking other men to die for you, you should lean towards the "not forever at war" position.
 
The Taliban are part of the population that is over there, just as white supremacists are a part of the population of the US.

I agree with your comparison, but not your conclusion.
 
That's not an argument against anything. If a person was too physically disabled to serve in the military, would that mean he has no right to a hawkish position?

He said "even if it were cowardice" he still things its a good idea. Or something very similar. No I am not going back to quote a coward.
 
I have been to Afghanistan and seen the good work that has been done. Have you.
I think you might be the one with the propaganda

Yay, you've seen something I said happens. Huzzah! And then spoke nothing to the statistics that I brought up. Great!

Any other null factors you want to get off your chest. I'm sure there was more than 1 humanitarian effort in Afghanistan, maybe you can point that out too. That would be real helpful.
 
The "Cut and Run" president strikes again..........The job is not finished...........The Taliban will be running the country 6 weeks after we are gone.

We should have thought about that 13 years ago when we began this conflict.
 
There's plenty we can do; we just don't have a CIC with the balls to do it.

We haven't had a CIC "with the balls to do it" since Roosevelt.
 
Obama missed a golden opportunity to pull all our troops out, when he killed bin Laden. He could've held up a sign "Mission Accomplished", pulled them out and declared victory.

So today he gives a dopey foreign policy speech in which he says:

"I believe in American exceptionalism with every fiber of my being," Obama said. "But what makes us exceptional is not our ability to flout international norms and the rule of law; it's our willingness to affirm them through our actions."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

Now he's trying to redefine it into something not even resembling its historical meaning. "The ability to flout international law" has never been a part of it. It's totally internal. Didn't he imply that Gitmo was illegal in 2008? He keeps promising to close it, but doesn't. He's all hat and no cattle (i.e., no action). Who the hell wrote that speech?
 
Obama missed a golden opportunity to pull all our troops out, when he killed bin Laden. He could've held up a sign "Mission Accomplished", pulled them out and declared victory.

So today he gives a dopey foreign policy speech in which he says:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

Now he's trying to redefine it into something not even resembling its historical meaning. "The ability to flout international law" has never been a part of it. It's totally internal. Didn't he imply that Gitmo was illegal in 2008? He keeps promising to close it, but doesn't. He's all hat and no cattle (i.e., no action). Who the hell wrote that speech?

Oh come on. No one care about he says, only what he does. Just ignore his speeches.
 
Oh come on. No one care about he says, only what he does. Just ignore his speeches.

I do, and this was about what he doesn't (do).
 
The "Cut and Run" president strikes again..........The job is not finished...........The Taliban will be running the country 6 weeks after we are gone.

Oh puh-lease.....can you come up with some new talking points at least. You can hardly say "Cut and Run" when Obama has had troops there for six years of his terms. The reality is with you Neo-Cons, you are not happy without endless war. When is it ever ok with withdraw troops in your mind NP? I thought your hero announced "Mission Accomplished" years and years ago.
 
So you take the time to cut out the rest of my argument then accuse me of not having an argument?
I didn't mean to say that you didn't have a legitimate argument against a continued presence in Afghanistan, and if it came across that way I apologize. That one line, however, is an oft repeated canard that is used in place of actual debate. It's really just an ad hominem; it implies that only people who are personally affected by a policy have the right to an opinion on that policy without actually debating the merits of that policy.

Imagine how ridiculous that would be if applied to other issues. I'm sure this has been said before, but what if someone stated that only pregnant women have the right to debate abortion? What if I said that only the family of shooting victims can argue gun control? That only rich people should be discussing income taxes? For some reason it seems to mostly occur in foreign policy debates, but that doesn't make it any more legitimate.
Even still, that same statement stands. It's easy to be totally Ok with perpetual war when it has no effect on your life whatsoever. We're in this situation because we've gotten so good at shielding the American people from any effect of our wars that they no longer care enough to even demand that our politicians finish them.
I agree here. An educated, politically knowledgeable populace is necessary, for better or worse. Unfortunately, that is easier said than done.
You can have an opinion if you're not fit for service but seeing as how you're asking other men to die for you, you should lean towards the "not forever at war" position.

I am, in fact, autistic and physically disabled. I'm not sure what the standards are for service in regards to physical disability, but even if I were fit for service I highly doubt that I'd be placed in harms way were I to join. Again, though, why am I morally obligated to hold a certain opinion based on that? I can't be personally involved in every single issue that I may think about.
 
I agree with your comparison, but not your conclusion.

OK. But let's suppose that troops from Pakistan where stationed here in the US, and whites, some of whom were simply minding their own business, were being killed with Pakistani drones. I know that's not realistic, but it puts the situation somewhat in perspective.
 
WHy doesn't Obama just get it over with and put 1,000 troops in EVERY country like the Neocons who whisper in his (and other POTUS's) ear are dying to do.
 
WHy doesn't Obama just get it over with and put 1,000 troops in EVERY country like the Neocons who whisper in his (and other POTUS's) ear are dying to do.

personally i think congress should allow the authorization to use military force, which had been passed in 2001, to finally sunset. that would end our involvement in Somalia, Yemen, pakistan and other countries
 
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