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Thread: US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

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    Re: US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's just some little thing on the side we do to try to cover our own ass, not to produce some aggregate and fundamental change in perception to a more Pro-West orientation.
    lol absolutely untrue.
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    Re: US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Huh??
    You tell me

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    Re: US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    You tell me
    Tell you what?

    It seems odd that you sometimes decide to go through these motivations and justifications for nation-states but other times don't. Is that a "fight" to you? I don't get it. Can I not make that observation?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Governments obtain their legitimacy through the consent of the governed. If you are not of the governed, you have no proper say. End of story.

    But we could engage in our own propaganda if we were really interested in breaking the cycle. Building roads and schools and hospitals would go a much further way to producing a more Western sympathetic Middle East than blowing up friends and family could ever do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That doesn't imply we're doing nothing. It implies that investing in propaganda along the lines of building roads and schools and hospitals would go much further to producing a more Western sympathetic Middle East that blowing up friends and family could ever do. That's a true statement. The limited humanitarian efforts we engage in (which was explained to you later in another post that you had read and replied to...well I assumed read) is not an investment in constructive propaganda. We bomb far too many, kill far too many for that to be propaganda. That's just some little thing on the side we do to try to cover our own ass, not to produce some aggregate and fundamental change in perception to a more Pro-West orientation.

    Do you not read what you're replying to? I mean, for real. Within 2 posts the majority of major questions concerning my opinion had been addressed. There was no need for this ridiculousness.
    Sure it means we doesn't. Normal people would say we should be doing more not that we could do something implying that we are not doing it.
    And the fact that you think we only do civil operations to cover our ass shows you do not know what you are talking about. Civil projects are a major focus over there and have been for a long long time. What evidence do you have that it's not.

    We could be doing more but with the limited security and Taliban activity it is extremely hard to accomplish that with out an active military presence. I have seen them burn a brand new school simply because the village elder accepted US help for his people. You need the stick and the carrot either one without the other is pointless.

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    Re: US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Tell you what?

    It seems odd that you sometimes decide to go through these motivations and justifications for nation-states but other times don't. Is that a "fight" to you? I don't get it. Can I not make that observation?
    It seems like you want to create a point for dispute. There is a reason for that. It's a latent hostility that's in your mind. I can make that observation, can't I?

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    Re: US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It seems like you want to create a point for dispute. There is a reason for that. It's a latent hostility that's in your mind. I can make that observation, can't I?
    Hmmm...I guess the operative word there would be "seems". I'm just making a simple note. If you think it's hostile, that's cool.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Your response was ridiculous. The Taliban did not kill those innocent people.
    The Taliban caused those people to, because Taliban terrorists are hiding among them. The use of human shields is a war crime. You should be outraged.
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    Re: US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    I didn't mean to say that you didn't have a legitimate argument against a continued presence in Afghanistan, and if it came across that way I apologize. That one line, however, is an oft repeated canard that is used in place of actual debate. It's really just an ad hominem; it implies that only people who are personally affected by a policy have the right to an opinion on that policy without actually debating the merits of that policy.

    Imagine how ridiculous that would be if applied to other issues. I'm sure this has been said before, but what if someone stated that only pregnant women have the right to debate abortion? What if I said that only the family of shooting victims can argue gun control? That only rich people should be discussing income taxes? For some reason it seems to mostly occur in foreign policy debates, but that doesn't make it any more legitimate.

    I agree here. An educated, politically knowledgeable populace is necessary, for better or worse. Unfortunately, that is easier said than done.


    I am, in fact, autistic and physically disabled. I'm not sure what the standards are for service in regards to physical disability, but even if I were fit for service I highly doubt that I'd be placed in harms way were I to join. Again, though, why am I morally obligated to hold a certain opinion based on that? I can't be personally involved in every single issue that I may think about.
    Well, while I agree that one doesn't have to have "skin in the game" to have a political opinion on something, Americans in general should at least have SOME when it comes to our own wars. That's where my problem is. We have the longest war of our nation's history, and yet 99% of Americans are not effected by it in any way, so nobody gives a flying rat's ass about ending it.

    That is a tremendous problem. I'm not suggesting a Heinlein style of government where only the vets can vote and make decisions, I'm just saying if the American people as a whole suffered even a fraction of what our soldiers are suffering, this war would've been long over.

    You're entitled to whatever opinion you choose to have, and you're not necessarily "morally obligated" to choose either side, but if you're sending off other men to fight for you, you should have an extreme conviction for the purpose and goals for the war. There are also other ways to help the war effort, if it's that important to you.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 05-29-14 at 05:53 AM.
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    Re: US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    lol absolutely untrue.
    lol, absolutely true. If we were really engaged in such a propaganda war to change the hearts of the people in the Middle East, we wouldn't be spending the majority time blowing it up. lol lol lol
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    All that was needed was to help the Northern Alliance win and have a persistent, small presence at Bagram. That was it. Trying to nation build there was always retarded and based in a silly idea of revenge. If there was one war to actually prosecute, it was Iraq. Afghanistan should've een treated more or less like the Philippines.
    I agree. It should have been a clear specific attack and out. The nation building of the Neo-Cons has never worked.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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