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Mexican cooperation could have spared Marine from ordeal, say border sources

j-mac said:
A phone call to their US counterparts would have solved the entire thing...Are you telling me that they don't have phones in Mexico?
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how simplistic. yo, you guys, we have a fellow who says he's a marine. he had three illegal weapons in his car when he crossed the border into mexico. do we give him a get out of jail free pass because he insisted he missed his exit and accidentally drove into mexico. do you cross your heart and swear he is not one of your agents involved in gun running, because the last time you guys did this you didn't tell us anything about what you were doing

We, on this side of the border constantly have Mexican police, and military crossing our border, some by accident, some intentional protecting drug cartels...Those by accident we send home....
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and i am absolutely certain, without annnnny doubt whatsoever, that all we do when we apprehend someone who comes into our country carrying illegal weapons, is call some unnamed but certain to be honest mexican official who will vouch for the honesty of the gun runners - i mean people who lost their way - and then release them without further action

But I am sure you still want amnesty for illegals here don't you?
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no. in fact that was one of the many stupid things your hero, reagan did
what i want is due process. for everyone and not the actions we might expect from some child who believes all we need to do to resolve such matters is place a phone call to the problem fairy across the border
 
justabubba said:
how simplistic. yo, you guys, we have a fellow who says he's a marine. he had three illegal weapons in his car when he crossed the border into mexico. do we give him a get out of jail free pass because he insisted he missed his exit and accidentally drove into mexico. do you cross your heart and swear he is not one of your agents involved in gun running, because the last time you guys did this you didn't tell us anything about what you were doing


and i am absolutely certain, without annnnny doubt whatsoever, that all we do when we apprehend someone who comes into our country carrying illegal weapons, is call some unnamed but certain to be honest mexican official who will vouch for the honesty of the gun runners - i mean people who lost their way - and then release them without further action


no. in fact that was one of the many stupid things your hero, reagan did
what i want is due process. for everyone and not the actions we might expect from some child who believes all we need to do to resolve such matters is place a phone call to the problem fairy across the border
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Well, good. Then you're with me when I say that Mexican police or military caught inadvertently on our side of the border with weapons legal in their country should be immediately imprisoned in maximum security and restrained.

You should be a diplomat.
 
apdst said:
Being chained to a bed, nekkid for 4 weeks is due processs?
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Where did you see that?

It takes longer to get into court for whatever reason here.

Is he being denied Access to a judge?
 
justabubba said:
legally owned and permitted in the USA
not in mexico
unfortunately for him, he was in mexico with illicit contraband

how did they know he was not gunrunning
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The border agents were turning him lose, then some dude from the army took him into custody.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you people are ok with this scenario, but I am.
 
justabubba said:
where is accountability
did the fellow violate mexican law?
don't do the crime if you can't do the time
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So I take it you're a proponent of legal border crossings.
 
apdst said:
Jailed Marine's friend claims he was beaten, chained to bed in Mexican custody | Fox News
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Ok, I am sorry but I find it hard to believe.

The Marine was telling his friend by pone that he was beaten so bad with a bat that it dislocated his jaw.

How was the Marine talking with a dislocated jaw?

Where was the evidence of beatings in the pictures we have seen?

If they hit his jaw, they also hit his face which has no bruising.

I am not saying it didn't happen, but people in this case are trying to demonize the Mexican justice system and I wouldn't put it past people to make up stories they think people will believe, but there should be some evidence of it.
 
Mason66 said:
Ok, I am sorry but I find it hard to believe.

The Marine was telling his friend by pone that he was beaten so bad with a bat that it dislocated his jaw.

How was the Marine talking with a dislocated jaw?

Where was the evidence of beatings in the pictures we have seen?

If they hit his jaw, they also hit his face which has no bruising.

I am not saying it didn't happen, but people in this case are trying to demonize the Mexican justice system and I wouldn't put it past people to make up stories they think people will believe, but there should be some evidence of it.
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Of course you're saying it didn't happen. It's you people's SOP.
 
apdst said:
Of course you're saying it didn't happen. It's you people's SOP.
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Words are not evidence of an occurance.

Tell me how he could tell anybody anything with a dislocated jaw.

He was in court yesterday. He was skinny but where were all the bruises on his face?

Like I said, I am not saying it didn't happen, but there is no physical evidence that it did. None.
 
Something isn't right. If I am reading the story correctly the Marine crossed the border at San Ysidro by mistake.

traffic-at-san-ysidro-border-crossing


"Oh, sorry. I had no idea this was the border." :roll:
 
apdst said:
Of course you're saying it didn't happen. It's you people's SOP.
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So the part you left out is this Marine tried to escape the jail which caused him to be chained to the bed.

What happens to a prisoner in the US if he tries to escape?
 
Risky Thicket said:
Something isn't right. If I am reading the story correctly the Marine crossed the border at San Ysidro by mistake.

traffic-at-san-ysidro-border-crossing


"Oh, sorry. I had no idea this was the border." :roll:
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He stated he had been to Tijuana 6 times previously so he was very familiar with this particular crossing.

If the story was how he said it I would have stopped my vehicle on the US side and waited for a US police officer to escort me out of the area. I would not have proceeded in the line waiting to cross with 3 illegal weapons in my vehicle.
 
Mason66 said:
Ok, I am sorry but I find it hard to believe.

The Marine was telling his friend by pone that he was beaten so bad with a bat that it dislocated his jaw.

How was the Marine talking with a dislocated jaw?

Where was the evidence of beatings in the pictures we have seen?

If they hit his jaw, they also hit his face which has no bruising.

I am not saying it didn't happen, but people in this case are trying to demonize the Mexican justice system and I wouldn't put it past people to make up stories they think people will believe, but there should be some evidence of it.
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Nobody needs to demonize the Mexican justice system; it is what it is: Corrupt. Always and to the bone.
 
nota bene said:
Nobody needs to demonize the Mexican justice system; it is what it is: Corrupt. Always and to the bone.
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It is what it is. That is understood from the beginning.
 
j-mac said:
But it is striking isn't it? I mean all we hear from Mexico, and their various smiling spokes people is how we need to be more compassionate toward their poor citizens just looking to feed their offspring in Mexico, and how not really a big deal it is for them to come on over....Yet when one American makes a mistake, well it's straight off to Max security prison for him....
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I am not saying that they did the right thing, the guy should be released yesterday. But the Mexicans have been fighting drug cartels and might have a bit of a problem with someone coming over the border with a weapon like an AR-15. A Mexican inadvertently crossing over the US border with weapons is not that much of an issue, the second amendment allows the ownership of guns. From what I understand from this story is that he was arrested because guns are illegal in Mexico. And looking at their problems with the cartels I cannot blame them banning guns.

But enough is enough, I doubt he had any untoward reasons for bringing those guns over the border and he should not have been held that long.
 
apdst said:
Can you prove intent? Ever hear of due process?
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He crossed the border. Sucks for him. They are going to parade him around as a arms smuggler. It isn't like the US is squeaky clean in arming criminal groups in Mexico via straw purchasers. Heck F & F will probably be used in case to prosecute him. If I was the lawyer prosecuting I know I would go there in trial.
 
Peter King said:
I am not saying that they did the right thing, the guy should be released yesterday. But the Mexicans have been fighting drug cartels and might have a bit of a problem with someone coming over the border with a weapon like an AR-15. A Mexican inadvertently crossing over the US border with weapons is not that much of an issue, the second amendment allows the ownership of guns. From what I understand from this story is that he was arrested because guns are illegal in Mexico. And looking at their problems with the cartels I cannot blame them banning guns.

But enough is enough, I doubt he had any untoward reasons for bringing those guns over the border and he should not have been held that long.
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Article 10 of the Mexican constitution has an interesting clause in there, that you must show intent...That is an interesting term seeing as that this man declared immediately that he was stuck in the wrong lane, and didn't have any intentions of being in Mexico. He declared his legally owned guns from the start, and didn't hide them, in fact, he told the police that they could keep what ever they wanted just allow him to return to the American side...

Now, in your post you seem to be making excuses for those Mexican police, and military that inadvertently cross our border by mistake, and are returned in tact with no serious jail time done in America for their mistakes, but other than the time involved here, think that it is perfectly fine for the Mexican Military to have stepped in and arrested this man, imprisoned him, during which time he has been mistreated in custody.

In America, even if the situations were exactly the same, the Mexican would have had a bail hearing, probably released within 72 hours, if it hadn't already been dropped by the prosecutor looking at it considering the circumstances...

Now we have an American Marine, Afghanistan veteran, being held and before the press got involved, mistreated by the Mexican system, yet they presume to tell us what we should be doing with their citizens that come over here illegally, and commit crime, rape, murder, sell drugs to our kids, overburden our social welfare systems? Pfft! **** them!!!

I say we demand that he be returned NOW! or face a diplomatic nightmare.
 
j-mac said:
Article 10 of the Mexican constitution has an interesting clause in there, that you must show intent...That is an interesting term seeing as that this man declared immediately that he was stuck in the wrong lane, and didn't have any intentions of being in Mexico. He declared his legally owned guns from the start, and didn't hide them, in fact, he told the police that they could keep what ever they wanted just allow him to return to the American side...

Now, in your post you seem to be making excuses for those Mexican police, and military that inadvertently cross our border by mistake, and are returned in tact with no serious jail time done in America for their mistakes, but other than the time involved here, think that it is perfectly fine for the Mexican Military to have stepped in and arrested this man, imprisoned him, during which time he has been mistreated in custody.

In America, even if the situations were exactly the same, the Mexican would have had a bail hearing, probably released within 72 hours, if it hadn't already been dropped by the prosecutor looking at it considering the circumstances...

Now we have an American Marine, Afghanistan veteran, being held and before the press got involved, mistreated by the Mexican system, yet they presume to tell us what we should be doing with their citizens that come over here illegally, and commit crime, rape, murder, sell drugs to our kids, overburden our social welfare systems? Pfft! **** them!!!

I say we demand that he be returned NOW! or face a diplomatic nightmare.
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I am not making excuses, but those police officers and military that inadvertently crossed the (invisible border I would assume) were in uniform and on duty. This person who was arrested (from what I understand) was not on duty or in uniform.

I understand it was a mistake of this person but if a private person does something like this when he comes from Mexico, I would hope that the US would arrest him too and only release him after verifying his story or punishing him if he broke the US laws.

I can understand the arrest, he was a civilian on Mexican territory with several guns. We all know a lot of weapons are being smuggled from the US into Mexico and being used to spread death and violence.

As said, I do not disagree with the arrest but I do agree that he should have been released long ago.
 
Peter King said:
I am not making excuses, but those police officers and military that inadvertently crossed the (invisible border I would assume) were in uniform and on duty. This person who was arrested (from what I understand) was not on duty or in uniform.
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And some are suspected of working for the Cartels.

I understand it was a mistake of this person but if a private person does something like this when he comes from Mexico, I would hope that the US would arrest him too and only release him after verifying his story or punishing him if he broke the US laws.
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Yep, 72 hours...And they would have had been heard, and at the very least released on bail, most likely the prosecutor would have dropped any charges and they would have been returned.

I can understand the arrest, he was a civilian on Mexican territory with several guns. We all know a lot of weapons are being smuggled from the US into Mexico and being used to spread death and violence.
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No, we don't know that. And if you think that checking that guy's story, and that the handgun, shotgun, and AK style gun couldn't be traced easily as legal in the US, and not some nefarious sign of a gun running operation, then you are really not telling yourself the truth. The Mexican police were set to release him back to America, they were satisfied until the Mexican military puke over rode them...Why? Corrupt bastards.

As said, I do not disagree with the arrest but I do agree that he should have been released long ago.
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So what is Obama doing about it? What is he directing his state department to do? Beg? Grovel? Even our own neighbors know how weak Obama is...
 
justabubba said:
where is accountability
did the fellow violate mexican law?
don't do the crime if you can't do the time
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100% of all Mexicans who have entered the US illegally have broken the law and should be treated accordingly. Changing the laws to apply them more equally between Mexico and the US should be among the highest priorities of the State Department. Mexico has little to protect from Americans anyway and should be grateful that anyone even visits there at all.

Having said this I like the Mexican people very much but the only way this corruption can cease is to respond harshly against those in power.
 
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