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China and Russia Best Frenemies

Grant said:
I doubt the Russians or Chinese care what you think, nor for your very odd take on these events.
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I am once again not surprised you have no actual argument. See my original post questioning if you understand the topic at all. It seems it's an obvious no.
 
Demon of Light said:
That is more for their own domestic political reasons. Many of them have their own concerns about separatism and so endorsing separatism would be problematic. A lot more strongly objected to the sanctions by contrast.
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The countries objecting to sanctions are doing it for their own self interest though. It's sad for countries who were literally stomped on by the USSR are finding themselves objecting to actions to punish similar actions by the Russian Federation.

Which neighbors? Some neighbors certainly are doing that. Many of China's neighbors are building up their militaries as well. Does that mean China is isolated?
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Yes actually. China's actions are causing its neighbors to forgo their own disputes and start to work as a united front against China. The US spokesperson said that "no one is trying to contain China" but that is entirely 150% BS. That's exactly what we're doing with our Asian allies. Furthermore, like our Asian allies, Russia's neighbors are ordering big build ups right after the Crimean Invasion and Occupation. Apparently there was news that a Kremlin aide let slip that Putin is also after Belarus and Finland. Seeking to regain the lost territories of the USSR.

What about invading a country like say 6,000 miles away? Does that make it better?
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Since when did two wrongs make a right? Also, the US did gain some isolation after the Iraqi Mistake.

Yet the U.S. still has plenty of friends. :?
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True, but they know we're not going to invade them for reasons we make up at the time. Especially countries that we share deep cultural and economic ties.

The amusing part of the Ukrainian adventure is that Putin in trying to ensure that Ukraine doesn't leave the Russian Sphere of influence has permanently lost Ukraine from the Russian Sphere of influence.
 
obvious Child said:
I am once again not surprised you have no actual argument. See my original post questioning if you understand the topic at all. It seems it's an obvious no.
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Your opinions is all over the place but have no facts to support them. This might have been an interesting thread sans your juvenile rants.
 
Grant said:
Your opinions is all over the place but have no facts to support them. This might have been an interesting thread sans your juvenile rants.
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Look kids, "You're wrong...because I say so!"

Tell me, you think I'm wrong on the RMB having issues regarding the PRC's central bank? Please, tell me why you think the PRC central bank is trustworthy enough for the RMB to displace the dollar.

(Prediction: You're going to run)

Thing is Grant, we've done this dance so many times that we both know you cannot win an argument against me.
 
Demon of Light said:
View attachment 67167154
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Why do you think otherwise?

The rest of Asia is moving to contain China whether or not they admit it. Cooperation on defense, sharing intelligence, the reduction of their own tensions over fishing/hydrocarbon resources, it's classic containment. They'll still work economically with China, but their military and spending actions are very much Cold War containment. Vietnam was formerly a strong ally of China, but that's no longer the case. And the fights between the countries over territory have died down massively now that they all see China's less than peaceful rise and realize "well ****, we probably should deal with that together."

Give me a reason why you don't think containment is happening.
 
Higgins86 said:
It's not only Russia that China are investing in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/b...nuclear-power-plants.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Easing visas aims to help China buy into Brand Britain - ITV News

China buys into UK student housing - FT.com

Slowly but surely the US is being replaced as the worlds no1 superpower.
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And what say you? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

I know many complained when the US was 'the world's policeman', including Americans, but where does this leave the democracies? The Chinese are certainly into Africa and Central America, with Russia joining them as well, and those links of yours are interesting also. Where would Islamism fit into all of this?
 
Demon of Light said:
:applaud
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So? How does that disprove containment? The US traded with the Soviet Union despite having a policy of containment. We move to isolate the Soviets every chance we got. Merely because we sold them millions of tons of grain does not mean that policy of political isolationism and containment did not happen.

You're going to have to do significantly better than that.
 
apdst said:
Ukraine?
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The issue with the 1990s pact with Ukraine is there is no enforcement mechanism. You do realize however, you are classifying the failure to defend Ukraine as the same thing as an illegal occupation and invasion?

It's amazing just how little you care about appearing to be even remotely balanced.
 
obvious Child said:
The issue with the 1990s pact with Ukraine is there is no enforcement mechanism. You do realize however, you are classifying the failure to defend Ukraine as the same thing as an illegal occupation and invasion?

It's amazing just how little you care about appearing to be even remotely balanced.
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Thanks for aknowledging the fact that our government also ignored, like a pompus prick, treaties signed by a previous government.
 
apdst said:
Thanks for aknowledging the fact that our government also ignored, like a pompus prick, treaties signed by a previous government.
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If you noticed in the treaties, there's nothing in it that actually makes the US do anything.

But I can't expect you to actually understand the treaty.
 
obvious Child said:
Is that the best you got?
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Maybe you aren't getting the hint, but I don't think anything you have said is even worth the effort I have given so far. That is how badly your position is divorced from reality.
 
obvious Child said:
If you noticed in the treaties, there's nothing in it that actually makes the US do anything.

But I can't expect you to actually understand the treaty.
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It's a joint defense treaty. The very nature obligates the United States to do something.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Russia didn't have much of a choice. China has the only standing army (7,054,000) that could invade Russia (3,250,000) and prevail (USA = 2,291,910). China's population is growing exponentially. China's industrial base is growing and expanding at a rate that China's infrastructure and energy resources cannot keep up. It was just a matter of time, before China moved to take over the Siberian oil and gas fields, so Russia had two choices: sell China what they needed, or have China take it from them.
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Absolute, unadulerated hogwash, but always refreshing to hear the cro-Magnon opinion.
 
DaveFagan said:
Absolute, unadulerated hogwash, but always refreshing to hear the cro-Magnon opinion.
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Variations on this theme are all the left seem to have these days. They have run out of ways to defend the indefensible with any reason, logic, or clarity of thought so have resorted to the Kobiesque one liners which they falsely hope might be a substitute for genuine debate.
 
Demon of Light said:
Maybe you aren't getting the hint, but I don't think anything you have said is even worth the effort I have given so far. That is how badly your position is divorced from reality.
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Or more likely you're entrenched in your position but you aren't able to counter anything I said hence why you aren't able to even mount a single rebuttal whatsoever.

I don't think you have a grasp at all of the Cold War and how containment and isolation worked together. The West worked with the Soviets when we had to, but that did not mean we did not move to contain and isolate them when we wanted to.

You have to be pretty blind not to see South East Asia taking more and more steps towards containing China and limiting her influence.
 
apdst said:
It's a joint defense treaty. The very nature obligates the United States to do something.
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It's also a treaty that doesn't require the US to actually do anything under any written mechanism. Again, I don't expect you to be able to understand what the treaty actually says and calls for.
 
obvious Child said:
Or more likely you're entrenched in your position but you aren't able to counter anything I said hence why you aren't able to even mount a single rebuttal whatsoever.
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:roll: It is not a question of ability, but one of interest.
 
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