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Thread: Police call deadly Santa Barbara shooting spree 'premeditated mass murder'[W220]

  1. #191
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    re: Police call deadly Santa Barbara shooting spree 'premeditated mass murder'[W220]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    California's strict firearm laws didn't prevent Elliot from purchasing 3 handguns, they have hoops but not really that strict. If you are eligible to purchase a handgun in Oklahoma you are free to buy one in California, there is no higher standard.

    Elliot didn't 'fall through', homeless guys fall through. Elliot drove his BMW through.

    The Rodgers didn't have troubles getting their MINOR child taken care of, and they certainly had the money to pay for his care. They didn't need help, they needed to commit the boy, but most likely didn't want the stigma for him or them. Daddy was a director on the movie- "The Hunger Games"

    Once Elliot turned 18 the parent lose a lot of the ability to control their son, but again a relative can work with healthcare providers and have an adult family member committed for evaluation. While the process is often referred to as the Baker Act, most states have a process to commit a family member against their will, but it isn't pleasant. I can see how the creative, sensitive, and perhaps overly conscious of status and importance could shy away from the ugly world of involuntary commitment.

    Now what I know about the mental health care system.

    My mother slowly descended into a delusional world. She heard voices, she signed gibberish. She at first thought GOD was talking to her, but a Pastor at her church told her GOD doesn't speak directly to people, so she figured it was the devil. She also decided her husband of 40 some years was trying to kill her by injecting her milk jugs with poison. She took to hiding in the bathroom, and only eating fast food she saw being made. Her husband was a wreck and refused to do anything about it. A daughter lives nearby and started working with her health care provider to Baker Act her. Hubby spilled the beans and my mother fled Florida for Oklahoma. My wife and I were out of the Country at the time on business. My mom went to live with her sister in northern Oklahoma.

    I went to talk to her when I got back, having heard from both my half sister and step father. My mom was a mess. However there was nothing I could do on my own, my aunt and her husband refused to help. But as luck would have it my mother had a living will incase of incapacitation and that would allow for a 72 hour eval. Armed with that I coordinated with the local healthcare official up there and she did a home eval that led to a 72 hour eval. My aunt and uncle were NOT pleased with me but that wasn't my concern.

    During the eval I was told she did have significant issues, when I went back up to hear the results I was informed she was going to be released, while delusional she wasn't a threat to herself or others, because of that her medical eval was now private information and only she could release it. (she didn't) So I became the last family member to hug her. She said goodbye and I replied I doubt I'll ever see you again but how about until I see you again... she just smiled and said ok.

    I never saw her again.

    Now if that wasn't enough for you, my maternal grandmother and paternal grandfather were committed for dementia and alzheimers respectively. My Grandmother, who had lost her husband years ago kept claiming a series of men were her husbands. She was caught breaking a window to climb into a guy's house, claiming they were married but she forgot her key. (My wife had told me my granny would tell the same story three different ways when we had dinner with her once a month- I never noticed) Grandpa started wandering down the road, they lived in town, in his underwear and would relieve himself in other people's flowerbeds.

    Dealing with the health care community... yeah, I know a bit about that...

    Well, then I apologize for assuming....Your story sounds heartbreaking, and believe me when I say I understand what you went through.

    While I don't think that cops should be mental health workers, nor should they have to be, they can asses that someone is a danger to themselves, or others, and take appropriate action to make sure that the correct facility evaluate them.
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    re: Police call deadly Santa Barbara shooting spree 'premeditated mass murder'[W220]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    How on Earth are cops qualified to assess someone's mental state? If they are not in the middle of committing a crime (if then)? Someone randomly shows up at a house where nothing is happening....they arent psychiatrists.
    They didn't have to assess anyone's mental state, but there was a credible report from a mental health facility, and a public (at the time) video out there attesting to that state of mind...That alone had the authorities done their job and a simple follow up of what had been reported could have been averted. IMHO
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Police call deadly Santa Barbara shooting spree 'premeditated mass murder'[W220]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    They didn't have to assess anyone's mental state, but there was a credible report from a mental health facility, and a public (at the time) video out there attesting to that state of mind...That alone had the authorities done their job and a simple follow up of what had been reported could have been averted. IMHO
    I'm talking about sending cops out there randomly. If there wasnt a confrontation going on at that time, what was expected of the cops?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #194
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    re: Police call deadly Santa Barbara shooting spree 'premeditated mass murder'[W220]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I'm talking about sending cops out there randomly. If there wasnt a confrontation going on at that time, what were the expectations of the cops?
    This is about a specific incident, we should stick to that.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Police call deadly Santa Barbara shooting spree 'premeditated mass murder'[W220]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This is about a specific incident, we should stick to that.
    And I'm talking about a specific quote regarding this specific incident where the cops were sent to the home when nothing had been reported happening (a random visit).
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #196
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    Re: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/24/at-least-3-dead-in-shootings-in-santa-barbar

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    If done properly yes, it could have. Police see he has guns, they see video's where he claims he wants to kill people. He get's put away for a weekend for an evaluation. Hopefully good people who see through his 'charm' observe and talk to him and determine he is a real threat.
    He was seeing psychobabblers since grade school. His parents knew he wasn't all there. Cops visited his house weeks before due to behavior.

    So what does "done properly" mean? It's the same argument you get about socialism's perfect record of failure.

    Fact is, this will happen again. The way to stop murderers from stabbing people to death, running them down with cars and shooting others (all which this prick did) is to overwhelm them, and create an environment where they are not sure whether they will be able to pull off the crime.

    In the case of guns, someone with a gun is the answer, and waiting for cops everytime is not the solution. Waiting means the potential for prolonged mayhem.

    California has the harshest gun laws, including the 10 clip magazine.

    It failed.
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    re: Police call deadly Santa Barbara shooting spree 'premeditated mass murder'[W220]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And I'm talking about a specific quote regarding this specific incident where the cops were sent to the home when nothing had been reported happening (a random visit).
    You watched the same Media & Cop interview I watched, the killer put on a front to the cops, never tipping his hand that he might even be the slightest deranged. Had the cops had reason to search, they would have found his manifesto, guns and knives. We do know he obtained guns legally, another possible reason deeper background checks might be warranted for those who want to purchase firearms, maybe.

    Cops just cannot arrest people based on assumptions, they need hard proof a person is intent on doing something bad. This not directed at you because I realize you already know this.

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    re: Police call deadly Santa Barbara shooting spree 'premeditated mass murder'[W220]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And I'm talking about a specific quote regarding this specific incident where the cops were sent to the home when nothing had been reported happening (a random visit).
    Ok, what "quote" are you referring to?

    "It was the second time in recent months that Rodger's mother tried to intervene. In April, she had called one of her son's counselors after seeing bizarre videos he had posted on YouTube, though not the disturbing one he posted shortly before the killings, Astaire said. The counselor called a mental health service, which then called police.

    Santa Barbara County Sheriff's deputies who showed up at Rodger's doorstep to check on his mental health, however, weren't aware of any videos, the department's spokeswoman Kelly Hoover said. They concluded after their visit that the well-mannered if shy young man posed no risk."

    Elliot Rodger


    So, the sheriff was called by a mental health service to check on this young man, and never inquired as to why they were going out there? No videos mentioned? why?

    Either way this wasn't just a "random visit"....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/24/at-least-3-dead-in-shootings-in-santa-barbar

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    So what does "done properly" mean?
    You are a cop, or a therapist, you know the kid has repeatedly stated his intent to kill other people, you also know he has legally purchased guns. Is he a threat to society and you let it be known, or do you play a silly game of CYA because his parents are rich and you don't want to get sued?

    The way to stop murderers from stabbing people to death, running them down with cars and shooting others (all which this prick did) is to overwhelm them, and create an environment where they are not sure whether they will be able to pull off the crime.
    People like this kid, and the CT shooter, and most every other one of them, don't give a ****. When they meet resistance they kill themselves, it's part of the plan. They will take out as many as they can before that time comes. It doesn't deter them as they are delusional and believe (and are generally right) that they will kill several people (at least) before they have to turn the gun on themselves.

    I agree that current gun laws will not stop any of these people, which is pretty self evident because these things keep happening. And no amount of new gun laws will be any better in terms of stopping those that have criminal intent.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    re: Police call deadly Santa Barbara shooting spree 'premeditated mass murder'[W220]

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    What difference does it make? Texas is clearly a "non liberal" area, but you still have problems with shootings there.

    Your bias is incorrect, anyway.

    The following are two pictures: One is a picture of mass shootings in the US, the other is the red state/blue state map. If you go in and count, you'll find that there are actually more shootings in red states than blue.

    Attachment 67167075

    Attachment 67167076


    Now. To be fair? I counted 15 red states and 14 blue states, so it's not like it's a runaway. It does muddle your position, though, that the blue states are the ones doing all the mass killings.

    Stop trying to make everything political, OK? Not everything has to be turned into an "us vs. them" argument.
    Why are you so hung up on States? My original post showed part of the voting record for the county/city. Even in Texas and other "red" states, heavily urbanized areas are still primarily Liberal or other socialist leans. Pretty much any state has a split between Rural and Urban with the primary balance between the two being the suburban areas.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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