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Thread: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ok, that's cool. If as a nation we want to remove the Antiquities Act, and require presidents go through congress, that's fine. But Boehner and his followers need to dispense with the faulty argument that it is illegal or otherwise wrong for a president to circumvent congress in this manner. PARTICULARLY sense it was a republican president that established the precedent, and it being used by republican presidents subsequently.
    No, youre missing the point. Congress has to go through US. There is no text in the constitution which gives congress the power to pass such an Act. It would be akin to seizing land to build post offices, when there wasnt specifically a post office clause in the constitution. There is no Parks clause. Thus they cant seize land for such purpose.

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    What do you mean MMC?
    I think Mexico's Southern Border is where one needs to start to turn the tap off to a trickle.....you don't think they can say they are doing any good job, do you?

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Unfortunately for you, you cant predict the future. Lets stick to the debate though, and not make rhetorical claims.
    that's true... in the future, they could possibly make a new law that invalidates the old law.... or in some fanciful twist, a court challenge to this law could come from Congress.. the body that adopted the law in the first place.

    yeah, no.. the state doesn't have a case ... certainly not a constitutional case.

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    No, youre missing the point. Congress has to go through US. There is no text in the constitution which gives congress the power to pass such an Act. It would be akin to seizing land to build post offices, when there wasnt specifically a post office clause in the constitution. There is no Parks clause. Thus they cant seize land for such purpose.
    it was already federal land, there was no seizure of any kind.... Obama simply changed the designation of the federal land in question, which he was empowered to do by Congress.

    the act does not empower the President to seize private land... but it does empower him to reserve or accept such property.

    additionally, SCOTUS has ruled on 3 cases involving the Act... it's been upheld in each case

    for the SCOTUS nerds among us.. here are the cases in case you want to dig into them
    United States v. California, 436 U.S. 32, 56 L. Ed. 2d 94, 98 S. Ct. 1662 (1978)
    Cappaert v. United States, 426 U.S. 128, 141-42, 48 L. Ed. 2d 523, 96 S. Ct. 2062 (1976)
    Cameron v. United States, 252 U.S. 450, 64 L. Ed. 659, 40 S. Ct. 410 (1920).

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    No, youre missing the point. Congress has to go through US. There is no text in the constitution which gives congress the power to pass such an Act. It would be akin to seizing land to build post offices, when there wasnt specifically a post office clause in the constitution. There is no Parks clause. Thus they cant seize land for such purpose.
    So is it your contention then that Yellowstone National Park, Yosemite National Park, and other federal parks and monuments should just be auctioned off to developers?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    I didnt make that argument. However, the states have argued that point. They would know better than me.
    I didnt notice any restraints in Organ Pipe National Monuments...fences, helicopers, warning signs, border patrol/immigration stations on the border highway, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    If anyone has ever seen or visited the Organ Mountain Range, they'd realize it is very rugged and very difficult to pass over or through, I doubt very many illegals would attempt such a thing, temperatures during the day are sometimes 100 degrees, and night time temperatures drop into the upper 30's and low 40's. It's a very foreboding area.

    Not much wildlife wanders through the Organs either, mostly 4 legged coyotes and javelinas, rattlesnakes, and tarantulas.

    Organs-MoonRise.jpg

    06-11_5886.jpg

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I didnt notice any restraints in Organ Pipe National Monuments...fences, helicopers, warning signs, border patrol/immigration stations on the border highway, etc.
    Doesn't need to be, it's self restricting, that is if people are stupid enough to try to cross over them. Illegals stand a better chance of survival in the desert.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_M...s_(New_Mexico)

    The Organ Mountains, a small and rugged 9,000-foot high, 32 million-year-old range in south-central New Mexico just east of Las Cruces, have long drawn the adventurous into the rocky folds and crevices of their steep granitic and rhyolite slopes
    http://www.desertusa.com/desert-new-...mountains.html

    sign~1.jpg
    Last edited by AJiveMan; 06-30-14 at 01:35 PM.

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Doesn't need to be, it's self restricting, that is if people are stupid enough to try to cross over them. Illegals stand a better chance of survival in the desert.

    Organ Mountains (New Mexico) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Organ Mountains in New Mexico


    Heh, we might have been geared up better but that's exactly how we used to spend our vacations. And I love all the critters you listed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    No, youre missing the point. Congress has to go through US. There is no text in the constitution which gives congress the power to pass such an Act. It would be akin to seizing land to build post offices, when there wasnt specifically a post office clause in the constitution. There is no Parks clause. Thus they cant seize land for such purpose.
    In most cases, these lands are already held public lands that are receiving a new classification. It's not seizures.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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