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Thread: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    the state, if they sue, will lose.
    The state, if they sue, will win. Happy Blanket Claim Day!

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Like i said, I wasnt making that argument. But it doesnt matter what party he is. The states never gave the govt the power to nationalize land for the purposes of preserving antiquities. Not everyone here is a partisan.
    Ok, that's cool. If as a nation we want to remove the Antiquities Act, and require presidents go through congress, that's fine. But Boehner and his followers need to dispense with the faulty argument that it is illegal or otherwise wrong for a president to circumvent congress in this manner. PARTICULARLY sense it was a republican president that established the precedent, and it being used by republican presidents subsequently.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The state, if they sue, will win. Happy Blanket Claim Day!
    To date, no court challenge has forced an undoing of a presidential declaration creating a national monument.

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CRPT-11...113hrpt221.htm
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The state, if they sue, will win. Happy Blanket Claim Day!
    unfortunately for you.. I have the backing of long held law to base my claim on.

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    congress is not needed to declare national monuments..... nobody is going around congress on this... not Bush, not Obama.. not any President since Teddy.

    as an aside, Tu Quoque fallacies make for poor arguments
    It was this to which I referred to with regards to congresses failure to act.


    This Article is the first to explore an alternate means to modify and protect existing national marine sanctuaries when Congress fails to to do so. The 1972 National Marine Sanctuaries Act is the only federal legislation that provides for the designation of large-scale ocean areas for long-term protection and management. For nearly thirty years, it was customary for Congress to reauthorize the Act to meet the increasingly complex regulatory and stakeholder needs of sanctuary management—until now. Congress has not reauthorized the Act since 2000, and a pall of uncertainty has been cast over the National Marine Sanctuaries Program. The most pressing need for national marine sanctuaries is the development of a resourceful way to achieve conservation objectives despite this congressional inaction. The Antiquities Act, a century-old statute providing for the declaration of national monuments (which has been applied almost exclusively to dry land) may provide a useful tool to help maintain existing national marine sanctuaries until Congress is able to reauthorize the National Marine Sanctuaries Act.

    http://elawreview.org/articles/volum...tiquities-act/
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It was this to which I referred to with regards to congresses failure to act.


    This Article is the first to explore an alternate means to modify and protect existing national marine sanctuaries when Congress fails to to do so. The 1972 National Marine Sanctuaries Act is the only federal legislation that provides for the designation of large-scale ocean areas for long-term protection and management. For nearly thirty years, it was customary for Congress to reauthorize the Act to meet the increasingly complex regulatory and stakeholder needs of sanctuary management—until now. Congress has not reauthorized the Act since 2000, and a pall of uncertainty has been cast over the National Marine Sanctuaries Program. The most pressing need for national marine sanctuaries is the development of a resourceful way to achieve conservation objectives despite this congressional inaction. The Antiquities Act, a century-old statute providing for the declaration of national monuments (which has been applied almost exclusively to dry land) may provide a useful tool to help maintain existing national marine sanctuaries until Congress is able to reauthorize the National Marine Sanctuaries Act.

    Monumental Seascape Modification Under the Antiquities Act - Environmental Law

    Well then Monte.....its time to talk to Mexico and play a little hardball. Cut off the flow from the opening.



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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well then Monte.....its time to talk to Mexico and play a little hardball. Cut off the flow from the opening.


    What do you mean MMC?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    CPB HAS ALREADY STATED that this will not restrict their border security in the are. It's in the post you quoted.
    I have a US house member that says otherwise. unless there is an exception written into the order they will not have access.
    many people are already questioning and the house is urging the president to give them permission to do so.

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    unfortunately for you.. I have the backing of long held law to base my claim on.
    Unfortunately for you, you cant predict the future. Lets stick to the debate though, and not make rhetorical claims.

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    Re: Obama Establishes National Monument in New Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    I have a US house member that says otherwise. unless there is an exception written into the order they will not have access.
    many people are already questioning and the house is urging the president to give them permission to do so.
    Las Cruces, New Mexico – Veterans are strongly refuting unfounded claims by Representative Rob Bishop (R-UT) that the designation of the Organ Mountains-Desert Peaks National Monument will increase illegal border crossings or hinder Customs and Border Patrol efforts in this area. These criticisms are intended to incite fear and are not supported by the facts.

    Prior to the broadly supported national monument designation, Senators Udall and Heinrich and the Department of Interior worked with the Department of Homeland Security, including U.S. Border Patrol, to ensure that the ability to conduct law enforcement activities in the National Monument would be unimpeded.

    The reality is that the Organ Mountains-Desert Peaks national monument designation retains U.S. Border Patrol’s current access to public lands within and around the monument boundary. Law enforcement activities will continue and be unaffected.

    http://www.vetvoicefoundation.org/ne...-border-patrol
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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