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Thread: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    This is where the horrible fuzziness of this all comes into play. At one time even Barack Obama, who were have been told was a Professor of Constitutional law, opposed SSM. So obviously it's not as cut and dry as people would like the issue to be. And to your point, people who I suspect know something about the CA constitution believed it could pass, and the voters passed it. The single judge who overturned both the votes of the citizens as well as the potential legality of the matter had his own different interpretation. Who was right and who was wrong? I don't think anyone really knows the answer.

    It's really too bad this issue has come to this.
    This is the result of people who are lazy and do not take the effort, time and energy to make their case to the public to earn their vote instead judge shop till they find a political appointed one of the same stripes to shove it through for them.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    YOU compared a ban on prayer to a ban on gay marriage, that IS comparing prayer to a civil contract....FFS, don't you undersatnd what you are saying?

    I know you keep repeating this pleasantry, but as usual, it still conflicts with all of your argument. You still say that marriage "is just a piece of paper", negating the civil law aspects, and defend votes in opposition to gay marriage as "people expressing their Constitutionally protected religious beliefs".

    It is just one contradiction after another, none actually supporting your pleasantry.
    I'm not the poster who brought up the banning of prayer.

    I support SSM because I believe adults have the right to marry whomever they choose. I'm not an expert on the Constitution nor pretend to be. I have my opinions based on my opinions. There is no other reason for them.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    The single judge who overturned both the votes of the citizens as well as the potential legality of the matter had his own different interpretation. Who was right and who was wrong? I don't think anyone really knows the answer.
    This again shows your two faced, contradictory argument, one face says " I support SSM", the other says "We don't know what is right".....completely ignoring that at some point YOU did decide for yourself which is right.

    Judge Walker came to his decision by solid fact finding, it has not been faulted, nor will it. To question it is to not understand it......and to question it while saying you support SSM.....is VERY strange indeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    In their minds, that's exactly what they were doing.

    The ones in CA who voted for Prop 8 were mostly religious people, based on the exit polls. Apparently it was their religion that caused them to vote as they did. I would need to see some evidence that their votes were based on an intent to ignore individual liberties.

    That fact that they ignored individual liberties is an apriori probability. They didn't vote as to whether THEY should or should not join in marriage to someone of the same sex, that would be a statement of their beliefs in terms of their own conduct. They did vote as to whether OTHERS should or should not join in marriage to someone of the same sex, that is enacting a law to restrict the freedoms of others.

    There "intent" isn't relevant at the point they expand their belief when enacting laws that require the government to discriminate against others. That isn't about personal belief, it's an action to restrict others.



    >>>>

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I'm not the poster who brought up the banning of prayer.
    You used it in argument, you compared it to civil law, you still cannot show that you even understand this part of your argument.

    I support SSM because I believe adults have the right to marry whomever they choose. I'm not an expert on the Constitution nor pretend to be. I have my opinions based on my opinions. There is no other reason for them.
    Your opinions are based on your opinions? Tautology at its finest along with circular logic. Thanks for confirming that there is little or no reasoning going on, that was the point I have been making about your opinions for quite a while here.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Bravo! Their moral conscience was indeed the ruling factor in their vote. And the dirty little secret is it never would have made it on the ballot if it was not considered constitutionally sound. The legality and constitutionality of anything that goes on a ballot is determined BEFORE it is put up for vote. If a measure is deemed legal and within the guidelines of the constitution and then voted in by the people, no one judge should be able to negate what has been passed by voters. One judge striking down a voted in measure is akin to that judge saying "everyone but me is ignorant".

    Alabama placed a vote on their ballot to amend their Constitution to bar interracial marriage. That Alabama Constitutional amendment was invalided by the Loving decision in 1967.

    Was Alabama's vote to ban interracial marriage Constitutionally sound?


    (BTW & FYI - When a law is found unconstitutional, that law is not stricken from the statutes or State Constitution, it remains in the printing until removed later by legislative action or a new Amendment. In 2000 Alabama finally got around to removing the discriminatory language from their Constitution. 33-years after the Loving decision. The really sad thing is that 40% of the people voted to retain the language even though it was void.)



    >>>>

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You used it in argument, you compared it to civil law, you still cannot show that you even understand this part of your argument.

    Your opinions are based on your opinions? Tautology at its finest along with circular logic. Thanks for confirming that there is little or no reasoning going on, that was the point I have been making about your opinions for quite a while here.
    I'm not the poster who brought up the banning of prayer. If you think it has no play in this discussion, you need to tell that to the poster.

    Yes, I have my opinions. I'm not an expert on the Constitution. I don't care who marries whom. Sorry if that bothers you. I don't pretend to be a Constitutional expert, not even on message boards. I'll leave that to the rest of you.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    This is the result of people who are lazy and do not take the effort, time and energy to make their case to the public to earn their vote instead judge shop till they find a political appointed one of the same stripes to shove it through for them.
    Since when is striking down an un-Constitutional proposition "shoving" anything?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    This is the result of people who are lazy and do not take the effort, time and energy to make their case to the public to earn their vote instead judge shop till they find a political appointed one of the same stripes to shove it through for them.

    When you are a citizen of Oregon, you file in Oregon courts. When a federal suit is filed in Oregon federal courts (as they are in all federal courts) there is a random assignment of Judges.

    There is no "judge shopping" in federal courts you are limited to the district you can file in based on residency and the judge is assigned randomly by computer program.



    >>>>

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    That fact that they ignored individual liberties is an apriori probability. They didn't vote as to whether THEY should or should not join in marriage to someone of the same sex, that would be a statement of their beliefs in terms of their own conduct. They did vote as to whether OTHERS should or should not join in marriage to someone of the same sex, that is enacting a law to restrict the freedoms of others.

    There "intent" isn't relevant at the point they expand their belief when enacting laws that require the government to discriminate against others. That isn't about personal belief, it's an action to restrict others.



    >>>>
    I don't assume what's going on in people's minds when they walk in to cast a vote on issues. I can't. There's no way to prove what I think.

    Most of those in CA who voted for Prop 8 were religious people, so I suspect that it was based on their religious beliefs and not an intent to be mean to their fellow citizens. JMO.

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