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Thread: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with this. The First Amendment protects the rights of people to exercise their freedom of religion.

    For some reason people believe it's acceptable to insult people who are exercising their First Amendment rights while at the same time screaming about Constitutional rights of marriage which should be honored.

    Either you respect the Constitution, or you don't. I marvel how some people believe the Constitution doesn't apply except when they believe it applies.
    Except that we're not insulting them for exercising their Rights. We're insulting the beliefs that are bigoted. Big difference.
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    The hell they aren't! You are making people of faith ignore their moral conscience forcing them to perform services for same sex marriages which is something they find to be an abomination. Because if they don't they can go to jail, face financial ruin and lose their business. And yes if you can get away with that it isn't that far off with activist judges and a hatred on the left for people of faith whom you are already suppressing that you will soon be suppressing their places of worship forcing your discrimination BS on them too.
    I have a moral and religious objection to the recurrent training the FAA requires me to undergo to be a commercial pilot.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Thank you Tres for your response. It gives me hope.
    I watch people day in and day out on this board insult religious believers, which I happen not to be (my choice) but I respect people's right to have religious beliefs. Those tend to be the same people who screech about the Constitutional rights of people to marry whomever they want. I believe people should marry whomever they want because I'm one of those people who thinks that grown ups should do whatever works for them, which in my world includes polygamy, siblings, and their computers if they want to claim a loving union with that. I don't' think that because Chief Justice Burger said in 1967 that interracial couples can marry or some judge in 2014 said gay people can marry. I think it because I think it based on my own opinion.

    It can't be both ways. Either the Constitution grants rights, or it doesn't. It clearly states with no ambiguity a right to exercise religion. I have a problem with people's use of the Constitution when it suits their purposes, and ignoring it when it doesn't.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I watch people day in and day out on this board insult religious believers, which I happen not to be (my choice) but I respect people's right to have religious beliefs. Those tend to be the same people who screech about the Constitutional rights of people to marry whomever they want. I believe people should marry whomever they want because I'm one of those people who thinks that grown ups should do whatever works for them, which in my world includes polygamy, siblings, and their computers if they want to claim a loving union with that. I don't' think that because Chief Justice Burger said in 1967 that interracial couples can marry or some judge in 2014 said gay people can marry. I think it because I think it based on my own opinion.

    It can't be both ways. Either the Constitution grants rights, or it doesn't. It clearly states with no ambiguity a right to exercise religion. I have a problem with people's use of the Constitution when it suits their purposes, and ignoring it when it doesn't.
    Wait, where exactly is the constitutional right to not be insulted found?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Except that we're not insulting them for exercising their Rights. We're insulting the beliefs that are bigoted. Big difference.
    In your opinion, their beliefs are bigoted. So yes, you are insulting them and doing exactly what you accuse them of. You are discounting their religious beliefs with no respect for their Constitutional right to have them. You are showing a bigotry against religious beliefs. Sorry, Kal, but I don't see it any other way.

    You can disagree with religion without applying a personal attack to it.

    JMO.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Wait, where exactly is the constitutional right to not be insulted found?
    Nobody said there was one.

    If you truly respect the Constitution, you would not insult people who have religious beliefs. That is a protected right.

    Insult them all you want, but you should also be prepared to be called out on your lack of respect for the Constitution.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I disagree. A free society means people are allowed the freedoms afforded them. In our society religious freedoms are the very first mentioned in the 1st Amendment. To deny a man to be who he is because of his moral conscience in the public square is unacceptable and frankly unconstitutional.
    Who's being denied? No one is forcing people to perform religious ceremonies. In fact businesses are required to allow people to practice religious prayers when working. And two gay men getting married does not infringe on your religious freedoms at all. Not even a tiny fraction of a fraction.

    As for denying gay couples business, I would have no problem getting rid of that law. I believe that business owners have a right to discriminate who they sell their property to. There's a whole thread that was made about that very subject of which I was a participant in to show that I'm speaking the truth on that. Let's get that law changed.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It is the equivalent of marriage. The Indians didn't call it marriage, but the essence was the same. Life long partners. Yeah, they didn't have ceremonies for it afaik, but then neither did the European peasantry before 1563 or so. That was when the Council of Trent decided that marriages must be performed in front of a priest with witnesses.



    You're right, it doesn't matter. It is just a little bit of fact to be thrown at those that are anti-SSM and try to use history as to it "never being accepted" and it just recently having become "a thing".



    Personally I have no problem with them believing that SSM is wrong. But I do have a problem with them trying to deny Rights based on their religious beliefs.



    Yeah, I can do without the name calling myself. But there are times when its necessary unfortunately. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.



    I'd scream if it was the result of a few judges, 30+ though all from across the county, even in same view states? I think I'd shut my mouth at that point.



    Nobody's perfect.
    30 judges do not make a compelling case. You should support gay marriage because it's what you believe to be right, not what some judge thinks. Do you let judges do all your thinking for you? If 30 judges say gay marriage isn't a right, are they rigth too, just because they are judges? Are judges infallible, Kal? I don't believe they are. They are humans, just like you & me. Put 10 of them in a room and show them a statute, and I'll bet you'll get 6 different interpretations.

    30 judges in the past probably thought slavery was a good idea. Were they right, just because they were judges?

    Religious beliefs are protected by the Constitution. It's written in black & white. No judge needs to interpret that.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    In your opinion, their beliefs are bigoted. So yes, you are insulting them and doing exactly what you accuse them of. You are discounting their religious beliefs with no respect for their Constitutional right to have them. You are showing a bigotry against religious beliefs. Sorry, Kal, but I don't see it any other way.

    You can disagree with religion without applying a personal attack to it.

    JMO.
    The 1st amendment has another part in it that applies here. Freedom of Speech. As long as I don't attempt to deny them their right to exercise their religious beliefs then I'm not going against the Constitution, indeed I am also exercising MY right to insult them. Insulting their religious beliefs is not the same as denying them their right to exercise their religious beliefs.

    And yes, it is my opinion. Which is JUST as valid as their beliefs which is nothing more than opinions also.

    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Fair enough. But my little ounce of contempt does not justify the persecution complex of some of these people. Tell them to suck it up. They do not own marriage.
    They don't own marriage. But you & I don't own the Constitution, either. Their rights, whether you agree or not, are protected.

    And the reality is, almost 1/2 of the country doesn't think as we do. It's going to take some getting there to change that, but being antagonistic isn't the way. JMO.

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