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Thread: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Yeah another stellar post depicting the trampling of the moral conscience. All those people of faith need not leave their homes with said faith to work in the public square! Those damn people of faith and a moral conscience have no business dragging that faith into the public square. Let them leave it at home or only pull it out on Saturday's or Sunday's in their little places of worship.......gottcha
    If they are using characteristics of people (which in no way would actually affect their business) to judge them as unworthy to do business with, then they should not be in business and deserve to be punished for refusing to do business with those people.

    You set up a business that is open to the public, then you need to be prepared to do business with the entire public, not just those that agree with your personal moral code. Don't like that, then don't work somewhere that might conflict with your beliefs.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    No it is not hyperbole. People are being made to make decisions everyday whether they violate their moral conscience to keep their job or be at peace with their conscience and lose their job. It shouldn't be that way.
    again repeat this lie 500 times nobody honest, educated and objective will ever buy it but please keep up this entertainment that you cant support.
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    If they are using characteristics of people (which in no way would actually affect their business) to judge them as unworthy to do business with, then they should not be in business and deserve to be punished for refusing to do business with those people.

    You set up a business that is open to the public, then you need to be prepared to do business with the entire public, not just those that agree with your personal moral code. Don't like that, then don't work somewhere that might conflict with your beliefs.
    IDK, If you come into my business throw a punch at me and a shoe and demand I sell you a .99 cent candy bar on the basis of "****" and if I refuse am I the bigot or the aggressor?

    Maybe you are the aggressor?

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    No it is not hyperbole. People are being made to make decisions everyday whether they violate their moral conscience to keep their job or be at peace with their conscience and lose their job. It shouldn't be that way.
    The price of living in a free society. Actually it goes beyond even that when you consider that people have being doing that for thousands of years.
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    IDK, If you come into my business throw a punch at me and a shoe and demand I sell you a .99 cent candy bar on the basis of "****" and if I refuse am I the bigot or the aggressor?

    Maybe you are the aggressor?
    That punching you (or even causing a problem) would disrupt your ability to do business. Notice the qualifier in the post of mine you quoted. The characteristics being protected against discrimination have nothing to do with a person's business being legitimately affected by those traits. They are simply prejudices of the business owner being used against others to not do business with them.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Tell that to the nurse who lost her job because of her moral conscience could not allow her to assist in an abortion.
    Tell that to the doctor that was hauled into court because he refused to artificially inseminate a single woman because his moral conscience believes his services were to assist married couples wanting children.
    Tell that to those who work in social welfare with a code based on religious morals who end up having to close their doors because they can no longer operate on what the "state rules" says they must. And all those organizations out there who are so willing to help the needy that no longer qualify for government assistance because their moral conscience will not allow them to compromise to the government mandates they must comply to receive funding.
    Tell that to the baker who had to close up his shop because he was found violating accommodation laws and if he didn't comply faces fines and jail time even though his state constitution promised him the right to practice his moral conscience.

    What you want people to do is unconscionable. You want them to forget who they are and what they believe in order to work in the public square. What you are willing to deny a person, his identity, in the name of anti-discrimination is appalling and the worst discrimination of all. After all, if a person can't freely be who they are in the public square, they have lost their freedom.
    And little by little the remaining freedoms will be chipped away at, until they too are gone. There would have been an outcry had they attempted to do everything at once - but by taking little steps to achieve a goal, the public tends to ignore it if it isn't their "personal ox being gored." And that usually worked, until they miscalculated and Obamacare hit the scene, and millions of people suddenly became aware that the government wasn't looking out for anyone but themselves. It will be interesting to see what the next step is, and how - whatever it is - it will be viewed by the public.

    Greetings, Vesper.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That punching you (or even causing a problem) would disrupt your ability to do business. Notice the qualifier in the post of mine you quoted. The characteristics being protected against discrimination have nothing to do with a person's business being legitimately affected by those traits. They are simply prejudices of the business owner being used against others to not do business with them.
    Notice how you did not deny the violence..

    Well, that scenario would never happen EVER in my line of business...

    But thanks for your peace and tolerance.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    IDK, If you come into my business throw a punch at me and a shoe and demand I sell you a .99 cent candy bar on the basis of "****" and if I refuse am I the bigot or the aggressor?

    Maybe you are the aggressor?
    did you just try and compare breaking the law and illegal discrimination to you not serving somebody that tried to physically assault you and suggest thats a parallel analogy?

    that might be one of the worst, failed and factually nonparallel analogies i have read this year.
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Well thank you so much for your claim that I have let loons into my head. I read the findings of the judges. The people were fined and were warned with threat of jail time in some instances. You people who have advocated for same sex marriage have not a clue what you have done in regard to people in this country of faith and moral conscience and your accommodation laws in the name of discrimination. You all have become the discriminators.
    Post one instance where they were threatened with jail time. Just one.

    And talk about being uninformed, most of those instances were in states that did not even have same sex marriage. The weddings were committment ceremonies or marriages performed in other states. These cases were due to violations of antidiscrimination laws, which had nothing to do with same sex marriage. Once again the loons got into your head.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 05-21-14 at 10:36 PM.
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Indian culture is one. I'd have to research for more.
    Yes some of them accepted a certain form of gay unions (which isn't the same as gay marriage).

    I have a hard time accepting the notion that gay marriage accepted on a societal level has been a commonplace occurence in the past but then again, it doesn't really matter.

    Most of us posting on this board today were raised in a society where people had a married mother and a father as the norm (divorce, death or single mother birth aside) which is why many people struggle with the idea of marriage being something other than that. There are also many whose religious beliefs tell them that marriage is between a man and a woman. It amazes me to read posts accusing those people of being ignorant, bigots, and some of the other nasty words I see tossed at those people. Because some people's views on marriage have evolved doesn't mean everyone's views on marriage, or at least what they perceive marriage to be, have evolved.

    The way to bring people into a new way of thinking IMO isn't with insults and degradation, but instead with logic, reason, some passion, and education. That isn't the case on this board, and I think the ones who argue with too much insulting against the non-believers aren't astute enough to realize the mistake they are making. If this was all being handled another way, I would suspect far more than a little over half of the country would share their views, but bullying and insulting isn't the way to go about it. People by nature will push back and resist when attacked.

    Also, I find it interesting that many of the people whose arguments are based on the "wisdom" of judges are the same people who scream when they talk about the decision of SCOTUS on hot topics like Citizens United. Are judges infallible? No, to read some of the same people who claim they are for this particular situation.

    This is where the gay-rights advocates have gone wrong.

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