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Thread: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

  1. #521
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Accommodation laws are not tied to marriage. A couple can have a wedding ceremony without actually getting married legally. Last I checked, no wedding service provider (with the exception of perhaps the officiant) will ask to see a copy of a couple's marriage license.

    Let's wait to actually see a case where a couple, any couple, wins a suit against a clergy member for not performing their wedding, then we can talk about this. Until then, this is nothing but paranoia or fearmongering.
    The hell they aren't! You are making people of faith ignore their moral conscience forcing them to perform services for same sex marriages which is something they find to be an abomination. Because if they don't they can go to jail, face financial ruin and lose their business. And yes if you can get away with that it isn't that far off with activist judges and a hatred on the left for people of faith whom you are already suppressing that you will soon be suppressing their places of worship forcing your discrimination BS on them too.

  2. #522
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    So even more laws, now to provide "special rights" to the religious or anyone that claims "moral conscience" and doesn't ant to service customers.

    Don't want to serve blacks - just claim it's your religious or moral conscience.

    Don't want to serve Jews - just claim it's your religious or moral conscience.

    Don't want to serve gays - just claim it's your religious or moral conscience.

    Don't want to serve the elderly - just claim it's your religious or moral conscience.

    Don't want to serve women - just claim it's your religious or moral conscience.

    Don't want to serve veterans - just claim it's your religious or moral conscience. (Yes some states include veterans status in the Public Accommodation laws.)

    Don't want to serve divorcees - just claim it's your religious or moral conscience. (Yes some states include marital status in the Public Accommodation laws.)

    Don't want to perform the duties your employer pays you for - just claim it's your religious or moral conscience. (I do believe you have supported these special rights be incorporated into employment situations also so that employers can require their employees to do their jobs and not be fired for it.)



    Adding MORE laws to control how MORE people can or cannot act is a very liberal idea. Not one I agree with. Here is a thought, instead of ADDING laws to give special rights to a group you agree with, how about instead we argue for the repeal of Public Accommodation laws as they apply to private business.

    Instead of bigger more intrusive government, now about we repeal some laws. Allow individual freedom for both sides of the coin. Businesses get to refuse services to anyone for any reason, and customers get to share their experiences with their friends and the public. Let the marketplace decide if a business succeeds or fails. Let the business owner decide if an employee that refuses to perform their assigned tasks get to continue to receive a paycheck.

    ****************************************

    See looking at it from a legal and logical perspective. The intent of the law, as we saw in the recent debacle in Arizona (SB 1062) was that businesses would be exempt from having to serve gays. However if the law was written specifically to only apply to gays, then it's unconstitutional (See Romer v. Evans when Colorado tried to target gays - it was struck as unconstitutional). On other other hand if you make the law very general - then anyone can claim that their personal religion or their personal moral objection applies. As SB 1062 said ""Exercise of religion" means the practice or observance of religion, including the ability to act or refusal to act in a manner substantially motivated by a religious belief, whether or not the exercise is compulsory or central to a larger system of religious belief." There can't be a requirement that the individuals religious beliefs or "moral conscience" as you call it be part of an established religious dogma. Why you ask? The answer is that it would require the government then to approve or disapprove or religoius doctrine as valid or invalid. I don't know about you, but the last thing I want is the government defining religious doctrine as valid or invalid.



    >>>>
    It's either add more laws or do away with accommodation laws altogether.

  3. #523
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    The hell they aren't! You are making people of faith ignore their moral conscience forcing them to perform services for same sex marriages which is something they find to be an abomination. Because if they don't they can go to jail, face financial ruin and lose their business. And yes if you can get away with that it isn't that far off with activist judges and a hatred on the left for people of faith whom you are already suppressing that you will soon be suppressing their places of worship forcing your discrimination BS on them too.
    Too bad. If you don't want to have your business do business with the entire public, then don't open your business to the entire public.

    There are plenty of people out there who still consider interracial marriages/relationships to be an abomination. There are in fact people out there who do not feel it is right to have races eating in the same places or shopping in the same places or living in the same places. Why is your moral conscience or the moral consciences of those opposed to same sex marriage/homosexuality more valid than the moral consciences of those who are racists or against people of a certain religion or all religions or a person who doesn't respect or want to do business with people of a certain sex?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    It depends on the contract/agreement...

    I'm not going off on anything - you're making brash assumptions...

    Why are you even talking civil law/litigation here? especially when you're attempting to argue for gay marriage. When that would be the worst route you could go legally?
    OMG!!!!


    The ignorance......it hurts!
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You don't have support for this. When you do, come back and we'll debate it. Til then, it is a pipe dream to try to avoid having the government fully recognize same sex marriages. Nothing more.
    I hate to disappoint you but there is support for such a thing. It is being discussed and may be coming to a town near you soon. Stay tuned

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You do realize that we have higher cognitive functions than a cat or dog, right? We learn things, including the fact that there is an advantage to more than one adult providing resources/protection/guidance for our young.
    Yes, we have thumbs and larger brains - that still doesn't change the fact... If anything it proves my point that humans value skills rather than "normal" alpha animal traits... Which contradicts your logic of marriage...

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    The hell they aren't! You are making people of faith ignore their moral conscience forcing them to perform services for same sex marriages which is something they find to be an abomination. Because if they don't they can go to jail, face financial ruin and lose their business. And yes if you can get away with that it isn't that far off with activist judges and a hatred on the left for people of faith whom you are already suppressing that you will soon be suppressing their places of worship forcing your discrimination BS on them too.
    Oh, and most of those places where the major cases that showed a violation of accommodation laws, where people were sued for discriminating against gays, same sex marriage wasn't even legal there. So it proves that same sex marriage being legal is not at all necessary to violate state laws against not being allowed to discriminate against people, even if your religious beliefs are that you think you should.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #528
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Yes, we have thumbs and larger brains - that still doesn't change the fact... If anything it proves my point that humans value skills rather than "normal" alpha animal traits... Which contradicts your logic of marriage...
    No, it doesn't contradict anything I stated. We learn and grow, develop. That is the main advantage we as humans have. We adapt using our brains, our intelligence. Learning what works best for us to survive. Marriage was one of those things we learned works, at least for now. It may not be necessary when we grow a little wiser.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Too bad. If you don't want to have your business do business with the entire public, then don't open your business to the entire public.

    There are plenty of people out there who still consider interracial marriages/relationships to be an abomination. There are in fact people out there who do not feel it is right to have races eating in the same places or shopping in the same places or living in the same places. Why is your moral conscience or the moral consciences of those opposed to same sex marriage/homosexuality more valid than the moral consciences of those who are racists or against people of a certain religion or all religions or a person who doesn't respect or want to do business with people of a certain sex?
    Yep see you keep making my point, you will force a person to conform and violate his moral conscience even if that means to the point of denying him a right to make a living. Disgusting

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    OMG!!!!


    The ignorance......it hurts!
    It does...

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