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Thread: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The change is where the complication comes in. We already have civil unions as a legal institution, which is used on a state level for those couples who want a legal recognition that is different than marriage.
    But, on a state level, there is no difference between civil unions and marriage except in name. If there is, I might rethink my stance.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    No, not at all, Judge Walker cited Loving v Virginia which established that marriage is one of our most basic human rights.Really....to you civil and humans rights have nothing to do with each other?

    How does that work?
    Ha! Trick question it doesn't.
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, it wasn't. Even the Christian religion did not get involved in marriage until after about the 11th Century or so. And there are religions that may bless marriages, but they don't really have rules for marriages.

    Religion was not the main bond in marriage for most of its existence. It may have been involved in some small ways in many cultures, but the main bond was the family.

    Society/communities/families had the majority of control over family. However, there also wasn't the same concerns back in those cultures as we now have. Identity theft wasn't really a big issue. Who made medical care decisions didn't really come up. And so many other things that we now face that they didn't back in the past.
    That is epic bull**** but, since you said it I will go with it? so who did go with marriage? 11th century governments?

    The truth is marriage has been a spiritual bond/religious bond for the last 10,000 years..

    Marriage ritualistic artifacts have been found that are over 10,000 years old -- and none of these rituals have anything to do with government(s), and everything to do with the spiritual/religious.

    Governments had NOTHING to do with any of these "unions" unless they were to "unify" families for political or wealth reasons.

    Sorry, but sharing common spiritual beliefs in the name of a bond of marriage constitutes "religious" to me.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    That is epic bull**** but, since you said it I will go with it? so who did go with marriage? 11th century governments?

    The truth is marriage has been a spiritual bond/religious bond for the last 10,000 years..

    Marriage ritualistic artifacts have been found that are over 10,000 years old -- and none of these rituals have anything to do with government(s), and everything to do with the spiritual/religious.

    Governments had NOTHING to do with any of these "unions" unless they were to "unify" families for political or wealth reasons.
    I'm sure, then, that you agree Christianity has no specific authority to claim the word "marriage."

    Side note/fun fact:
    The terrible, activist judge in PA that overturned the ban was endorsed by none other than social conservative hero Rick Santorum!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    But, on a state level, there is no difference between civil unions and marriage except in name. If there is, I might rethink my stance.
    There is a difference in some places. Plus, not everyone wants the federal recognition. Others do. There is a reason that some opposite sex couples would prefer to have a civil union vice just getting married when the state allows them to. (What their reasoning is, I don't know. But they wouldn't exist at all for opposite sex couples if they didn't want something other than marriage.)

    Civil union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    But, on a state level, there is no difference between civil unions and marriage except in name. If there is, I might rethink my stance.
    There is, the rights and benefits are not the same.

    Marriage, as defined in law, is a civil matter, not religious.
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes, it would. And as I've said many times, it serves no real purpose but appeasement of discriminators. Most people who are for this action are against same sex marriage but recognize that it is going to be legal soon across the US. Very few that are currently for same sex marriage being legal actually support changing the name to civil unions. (Although there are certainly some that support removing government from personal relationships altogether, but that is not the same as changing the name.)

    Those currently in a civil union do not want to be treated as married, that is why they entered into civil unions and not marriages (with the only exception being where civil unions are for same sex couples rather than anyone).
    You call them discriminators when it was you that redefined marriage for them and now you are going to squawk about making all civil unions? That's choice. It is what you support that has brought about accommodation laws that force people to violate their own conscience to make a friggin living due to redefining marriage. So no, civil unions would end the conflict and protect the 1st amendment rights of all. Eventually people will come to realize it.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    THe civil rights movement wasnt about interracial marriage, legalization of interracial marriage in the South was an offshoot of that...it was enabled by the greater movement.

    And the civil rights movement wasnt about changing prejudice...it was about giving *people*...blacks...equal rights, making sure they were no longer treated like 2nd class citizens and had *equal protection under the law.*

    Just like this step in SSM is one piece of recognizing the same for gays.
    And as I said before, here is where we differ. I see the treatment of blacks until the civil rights movement as horrible. I don't see not getting a marriage certificate as "horrible". I also don't see married people as being "first class citizens" in order to get the notion of gays being "second class citizens", but that's just my opinion.

    The reason I'm for gay marriage is that I'm just not against it, to be honest. Maybe if I thought this was truly a tragedy that gay couples don't get that peice of paper, I'd be more active in my support of it. I know a lot of people who never married, but were very happy.

    I just think people should be able to marry who they want and that's that.

    You still haven't said how legalizing SSM will make the prejudices against gays go away, or them being able to get jobs and houses they are not getting today.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    But, on a state level, there is no difference between civil unions and marriage except in name. If there is, I might rethink my stance.

    It's called taxation.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    You call them discriminators when it was you that redefined marriage for them a
    Stop. Stop right there.

    Explain to me how your marriage, my marriage, or anyone else's marriage has been "redefined."
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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