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Thread: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Religions do not own marriage. They never actually did. Usurping authority over marriage because they came into power is not the same thing as owning marriage.
    Religion was generally ALWAYS behind marriage, except in a few instances such as arranged marriage to join powerful families, however outside of that - religion was the bond. It certainly wasn't government, except for the few aforementioned examples.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Religion was generally ALWAYS behind marriage, except in a few instances such as arranged marriage to join powerful families, however outside of that - religion was the bond. It certainly wasn't government, except for the few aforementioned examples.
    No, it wasn't. Even the Christian religion did not get involved in marriage until after about the 11th Century or so. And there are religions that may bless marriages, but they don't really have rules for marriages.

    Religion was not the main bond in marriage for most of its existence. It may have been involved in some small ways in many cultures, but the main bond was the family.

    Society/communities/families had the majority of control over family. However, there also wasn't the same concerns back in those cultures as we now have. Identity theft wasn't really a big issue. Who made medical care decisions didn't really come up. And so many other things that we now face that they didn't back in the past.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It's not the best option IMO because it creates 2 different govt agencies overseeing the same thing. more bureaucracy, bigger govt, more wasted taxpayer $.

    The opposite of what most conservatives/Republicans support.
    Oh but you see, what I am proposing is no legal marriages, only civil unions. After a couple is married, or right before, they go to the court house and get their civil union as well. The marriage would be for their personal satisfaction and the civil union would be for the law.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    OH MY GOD, BIBLE EVIDENCE BIBLE EVIDENCE.

    HOLY HELL...

    Question, protestant or Roman Catholic?
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    With all due respect (don't you hate when someone says that before a thought?), it's a long long long way from gay marriage rights to the civil rights movement.
    No, not at all, Judge Walker cited Loving v Virginia which established that marriage is one of our most basic human rights.
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    Oh but you see, what I am proposing is no legal marriages, only civil unions. After a couple is married, or right before, they go to the court house and get their civil union as well. The marriage would be for their personal satisfaction and the civil union would be for the law.
    Which is pointless. It does nothing but make things more complicated, and only to appease some people who don't want to share. Whiners who don't want same sex couples being called "married".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    We are humans. Our "institutions" change with time. Our words change meanings with time. You don't get to claim a timeless definition of any word.

    .
    Yes. The institution of Western marriage has changed in a huge way in the past few hundred years....HUGE. Women used to basically be the property of their husbands. Period. Property. Not even able to consent fully on their own behalf.

    Women gained more personal recognition and liberty in society and that is reflected in marriage today.

    Gays have gained more personal recognition and liberty in society and that is being reflected in marriage today.

    Institutions change.

    And you know what...there are religious people, and alot of men in general, that believe things would still be better if women were completely subordinate, legally, to their husbands. And blame society today on that change. Does that mean the change was wrong? Or was it the right thing for women, the right thing to do?
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And I see opposition to it on both sides. Most people are for simply allowing same sex couples to marry. It is the easiest thing to do. It also doesn't cost anything extra.

    We are humans. Our "institutions" change with time. Our words change meanings with time. You don't get to claim a timeless definition of any word.

    The government would need to do a lot of things. Marriage is used in many laws in the federal government, and all 50 states. And civil unions, that differ from marriage itself, exist in several of those states already.

    You want to get the change enacted, push for it. We'll see how much "support" for it is truly there. I'm willing to bet not a whole lot. Especially after same sex marriage bans are struck down by the SCOTUS. After that, it will become basically a non-issue.

    In fact, I challenge you to find a single state where the support for doing away with marriage licenses is in any way significant, and not just some really loud idiots calling for it. Marriage is needed, so long as we recognize legal family at all. Spouses become the most important legal family member to most people once they reach adulthood. Eliminating marriage altogether would cause major issues with our family laws.
    Nope it wouldn't cause major issues for our family laws. There would still be mothers and fathers and heads of household. Every relationship with a civil union would be treated equally under the law no matter how you define your relationship because marriage no longer means the same thing to all people.

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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Religion was generally ALWAYS behind marriage, except in a few instances such as arranged marriage to join powerful families, however outside of that - religion was the bond. It certainly wasn't government, except for the few aforementioned examples.
    Yep, religion has always been behind the concept of marriage, but that doesn't matter anymore, we take a more secular viewpoint on marriage nowadays.
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    Re: Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    Oh but you see, what I am proposing is no legal marriages, only civil unions. After a couple is married, or right before, they go to the court house and get their civil union as well. The marriage would be for their personal satisfaction and the civil union would be for the law.
    This is what I would support.

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