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China bans government use of Windows 8

Mycroft said:
Sure...I agree with that.

However, just because one doesn't like the interface it doesn't follow that the OS doesn't work, is inferior or is a piece of crap. It just means you don't like the way it looks. On the other hand, even if you don't like the tile interface, you don't ever have to see it or use it if you don't want to. Win8 also includes that good old, familiar desktop interface that any traditional windows user should be perfectly comfortable with. Of course, there is that issue with the Start Button. I know some people just can't bear to be without that. MS knows this, as well. That's why the next update is slated to bring that Start Button back. Personally, I never used the Start Button in Win7 so the absence of it in Win8 was no big deal for me.
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You need to bone up. Yes, they say they're bringing back the start button, but they aren't. It'll just be a button they throw on there that lacks the functionality of the old start menu.
 
clownboy said:
Again you're spewing nonsense. That it runs on mobile devices is not an enhancement to the OS. And no, the other changes aren't enhancements either, they are restrictions.
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Of course it's an enhancement to the OS. Prior to Win8, Windows did not run on smartphones, etc.
enhancement: definition of enhancement in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)
An increase or improvement in quality, value, or extent:
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Just saying that proves you haven't a clue. The reason business doesn't upgrade as quickly to new versions is almost entirely down to the costs of retraining. They certainly DO want a standard. Worker productivity is affected when the worker who could easily find what they were doing on every previous MS OS, now has to hunt the web to find where MS decided to hide everything.
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No, there are many reasons why businesses don't upgrade immediately. Retraining costs are just one of many reasons.
 
Mycroft said:
Your statement is false.

My VIC-20's interface was nothing like Windows, yet that little dynamo of a computer worked very well and Commodore made a lot of money from it. They did even better with the Commodore 64.

Perhaps more people should look beyond the interface when they judge an OS, eh?
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Rubbish. Look up the meaning of GUI.
 
sangha said:
All that says is that the UI is different and that you (and others) don't like it. It doesn't mean that it doesn't work
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Again, "not working" and "unusable" are different values.

sangha said:
Employees have constantly had to learn how to use new versions of Windows (and apps) and it has never rendered any version "unusable for business"
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Proving once again you don't know what you're on about. The UI (you DO know that stands for User INTERFACE, right? You know, that thing you say doesn't matter) elements were placed where users knew they would be and up until XP were accessible with a minimum click through.
 
sangha said:
Of course it's an enhancement to the OS. Prior to Win8, Windows did not run on smartphones, etc.
enhancement: definition of enhancement in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)
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Yes, now read that definition again. It may be an enhancement over MS's previous mobile versions on mobile devices. But the fact that the OS also runs on mobile devices does not meet the definition of enhancement.

sangha said:
No, there are many reasons why businesses don't upgrade immediately. Retraining costs are just one of many reasons.
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It is the MAIN reason. Yes, there are other reasons, I didn't say it was the sole reason.
 
clownboy said:
Again, "not working" and "unusable" are different values.
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If it works, it is usable.



Proving once again you don't know what you're on about. The UI (you DO know that stands for User INTERFACE, right? You know, that thing you say doesn't matter) elements were placed where users knew they would be and up until XP were accessible with a minimum click through.
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Actually, there is a history of MS moving various programs and utilities from one place to another. And requiring additional key clicks is a trivial concern for the managers who decide if and when to upgrade. No upgrade has ever been delayed or cancelled because of extra mouse clicks.
 
clownboy said:
Yes, now read that definition again. It may be an enhancement over MS's previous mobile versions on mobile devices. But the fact that the OS also runs on mobile devices does not meet the definition of enhancement.
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I'm glad that we can agree that it's an enhancement

It is the MAIN reason. Yes, there are other reasons, I didn't say it was the sole reason.
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No, it's not even the main reason.

The main reason is a lack of need. Applications drive all software purchases included OS upgrades. Businesses don't buy computers so they can run OS's. The buy computers and OS's so they can run apps

Since there are few business apps that require Win8 to run on the market, and since the in-house developed s/w that many businesses run do not run on mobiles (yet), there is no compelling reason for most businesses to upgrade as of yet.
 
Blue_State said:
Steering wheel is a buzzword? Ok, that makes you sound like an idiot.

It is not a traditional desktop. It is a blank window. Where do you go to launch 90% of your programs? The Start button. Doesn't exist. It seems silly. Anyways, people smarter than I in this field say:
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I've never gone to the Start Button to launch my programs. Perhaps you do and perhaps you have difficulty learning to use a different method. I don't know. But I got to ask you...if you have a cell phone, does it have a Start Button? If not, how do you manage to launch an app?

And, yeah...let's take a good look at what these "smarter" people have to say, eh?

Useability expert Raluca Budiu of the Nielsen Norman Group said, "Windows 8 is optimized for content consumption rather than content production and multitasking. Whereas content consumption can easily be done on other media (tablets and phones), production and multitasking are still best suited for PCs. Windows 8 appears to ignore that."
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1. Does this person seriously think Win8 is incapable of content production and multitasking? Here's a screenshot of what I have on one of my monitors at this moment. (I'm typing this post on my other monitor)

Screenshot (389).jpg

Based on my experience, Raluca Budiu doesn't know what the hell he/she is talking about.

2. So what if content consumption can easily be done on tablets and phones? Does that mean I shouldn't be able to do it on my PC?

Jakob Neilsen, "One of the worst aspects of Windows 8 for power users is that the product's very name has become a misnomer. "Windows" no longer supports multiple windows on the screen. Win8 does have an option to temporarily show a second area in a small part of the screen, but none of our test users were able to make this work. Also, the main UI restricts users to a single window, so the product ought to be renamed 'Microsoft Window.'"
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Jacob Neilsen makes the same stupid mistake that so many others make: They think Win8 is the tiled interface. My screenshot shows him to be, at best, just plain wrong and, at worst, shortsighted or deliberately misleading to those who might actually want to know what Win8 is all about.
 
sangha said:
I'm glad that we can agree that it's an enhancement



No, it's not even the main reason.

The main reason is a lack of need. Applications drive all software purchases included OS upgrades. Businesses don't buy computers so they can run OS's. The buy computers and OS's so they can run apps

Since there are few business apps that require Win8 to run on the market, and since the in-house developed s/w that many businesses run do not run on mobiles (yet), there is no compelling reason for most businesses to upgrade as of yet.
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Again showing you know nothing of the business SW environment. Just to clue you in, the main reason most admins won't let the mobile devices anywhere near their network is security. It's 1991 for mobile device security and too damn easy to exploit.
 
clownboy said:
Rubbish. Look up the meaning of GUI.
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A GUI is one kind of interface. There have been others.

In any event, I had a GUI on my Commodore 64. It looked something like this one:

GeOS_Commodore_64.gif
 
Mycroft said:
I've never gone to the Start Button to launch my programs. Perhaps you do and perhaps you have difficulty learning to use a different method. I don't know. But I got to ask you...if you have a cell phone, does it have a Start Button? If not, how do you manage to launch an app?

And, yeah...let's take a good look at what these "smarter" people have to say, eh?



1. Does this person seriously think Win8 is incapable of content production and multitasking? Here's a screenshot of what I have on one of my monitors at this moment. (I'm typing this post on my other monitor)

View attachment 67166925

Based on my experience, Raluca Budiu doesn't know what the hell he/she is talking about.
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Budiu talks about content production as if that were the concern of most business users. It's not. For example, it's not a major concern for banks.

2. So what if content consumption can easily be done on tablets and phones? Does that mean I shouldn't be able to do it on my PC?



Jacob Neilsen makes the same stupid mistake that so many others make: They think Win8 is the tiled interface. My screenshot shows him to be, at best, just plain wrong and, at worst, shortsighted or deliberately misleading to those who might actually want to know what Win8 is all about.
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Even worse is his complain is that "It has a misleading name!!" WAHHHH!!!! :lamo
 
clownboy said:
Again showing you know nothing of the business SW environment. Just to clue you in, the main reason most admins won't let the mobile devices anywhere near their network is security. It's 1991 for mobile device security and too damn easy to exploit.
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So now the problem is not re-training employees, it's security?

And security is enhanced if the mobile devices run the same OS.
 
sangha said:
So now the problem is not re-training employees, it's security?

And security is enhanced if the mobile devices run the same OS.
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No, try to follow along. That's the problem with MOBILE devices. And no, your mobile devices aren't secure running any commercial OS. A simple Yagi and a few off the shelf script kiddie programs is all that is necessary to hack the hell out of your mobile devices.
 
clownboy said:
No, try to follow along. That's the problem with MOBILE devices. And no, your mobile devices aren't secure running any commercial OS. A simple Yagi and a few off the shelf script kiddie programs is all that is necessary to hack the hell out of your mobile devices.
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Yes, there are security issues with mobile devices. There are security issues with any device that connects to a network.

But in spite of those issues, businesses believe the benefits outweigh the costs.
 
sangha said:
Yes, there are security issues with mobile devices. There are security issues with any device that connects to a network.

But in spite of those issues, businesses believe the benefits outweigh the costs.
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Again you demonstrate you don't know what you're talking about here. None of that is true in the way you imply. Businesses that must use mobile devices do so knowing they have to live with the vulnerability. Security on those devices is still very primitive.
 

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clownboy said:
Again you demonstrate you don't know what you're talking about here. None of that is true in the way you imply. Businesses that must use mobile devices do so knowing they have to live with the vulnerability.
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No business "must use" mobile devices. They do so because the benefits of doing so outweigh the risks.
 
Mycroft said:
I've never gone to the Start Button to launch my programs. Perhaps you do and perhaps you have difficulty learning to use a different method. I don't know. But I got to ask you...if you have a cell phone, does it have a Start Button? If not, how do you manage to launch an app?

And, yeah...let's take a good look at what these "smarter" people have to say, eh?



1. Does this person seriously think Win8 is incapable of content production and multitasking? Here's a screenshot of what I have on one of my monitors at this moment. (I'm typing this post on my other monitor)

View attachment 67166925

Based on my experience, Raluca Budiu doesn't know what the hell he/she is talking about.

2. So what if content consumption can easily be done on tablets and phones? Does that mean I shouldn't be able to do it on my PC?



Jacob Neilsen makes the same stupid mistake that so many others make: They think Win8 is the tiled interface. My screenshot shows him to be, at best, just plain wrong and, at worst, shortsighted or deliberately misleading to those who might actually want to know what Win8 is all about.
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Absolutely hysterical post.

You compare a desktop for productivity to a phone. Which is exactly why Raluca Budiu's comment is so important. You say an expert in useability doesn't know what they are talking about and you base your opinion off your own experience and nothing else.

Hard to reason with pictures of a desktop...oh wait...it is a picture. Not function.
 
Blue_State said:
Absolutely hysterical post.

You compare a desktop for productivity to a phone. Which is exactly why Raluca Budiu's comment is so important. You say an expert in useability doesn't know what they are talking about and you base your opinion off your own experience and nothing else.

Hard to reason with pictures of a desktop...oh wait...it is a picture. Not function.
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You totally missed my points. Guess I'll have to repeat myself in baby language.

1. I didn't compare PC productivity with a phone. I asked you if you had a problem opening apps on your phone without your beloved Start Button.

2. An expert in usability...who doesn't know what he can do with what he is using...isn't much of an expert in my mind. Especially when my experiences directly contradict his statements...as my picture illustrated.
 
Blue_State said:
Absolutely hysterical post.

You compare a desktop for productivity to a phone. Which is exactly why Raluca Budiu's comment is so important. You say an expert in useability doesn't know what they are talking about and you base your opinion off your own experience and nothing else.

Hard to reason with pictures of a desktop...oh wait...it is a picture. Not function.
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When the user is mobile, a smart phone can be more productive than a desktop which is difficult to lug around.
 
Mycroft said:
You totally missed my points. Guess I'll have to repeat myself in baby language.

1. I didn't compare PC productivity with a phone. I asked you if you had a problem opening apps on your phone without your beloved Start Button.

2. An expert in usability...who doesn't know what he can do with what he is using...isn't much of an expert in my mind. Especially when my experiences directly contradict his statements...as my picture illustrated.
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Wow, you are a condescending individual.

Your point does not trump an industry expert. Sorry.
 
Blue_State said:
Wow, you are a condescending individual.

Your point does not trump an industry expert. Sorry.
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LOL!!

Actually, my screenshot shows, unequivocally, that your "industry expert" is wrong...totally wrong...in his statement. You can choose to believe an unsupported statement from your expert...or you can choose to believe physical evidence of his error that is presented by me. Frankly, I don't care which choice you make.

But, in the meantime, while you are believing an expert who doesn't know what he is talking about, I'll continue to do the things I'm doing with the OS...including the things your expert tells you that I cannot do.
 
Mycroft said:
LOL!!

Actually, my screenshot shows, unequivocally, that your "industry expert" is wrong...totally wrong...in his statement. You can choose to believe an unsupported statement from your expert...or you can choose to believe physical evidence of his error that is presented by me. Frankly, I don't care which choice you make.

But, in the meantime, while you are believing an expert who doesn't know what he is talking about, I'll continue to do the things I'm doing with the OS...including the things your expert tells you that I cannot do.
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I am glad it works for you. It is was not well received by the industry. It is not a good operating system in my opinion. The opinion is echoed throughout the computing industry.
 
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