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Thread: China bans government use of Windows 8

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    Re: China bans government use of Windows 8

    Years ago I owned and operated a computer systems integration company. One of the experiences that business gave me was that of building 1000's of computers. I still build my own but haven't built them for anyone else for quite some time. Once a computer gets water cooled it can be fairly pricey. I suspect that it would cost me about $2500 to build a state of the art water cooled gaming computer. I would probably sell it for around $3500 so Mycrofts's system doesn't seem to be out of line to me for what it is. I've built professional AV recording workstations that sold for over $5000. For under a $1000 you can have a machine that will do about anything other than hi res gaming or perhaps video editing. A business computer doesn't require much computing power and internet surfing even less. I wouldn't recommend spending over $1000 for any business work station. But a hi tech gaming computer is a different animal. Almost all are custom built and the parts cost can get pretty high pretty quickly. I don't really mean to join the argument. I'm just trying to put some perspective on things.
    Last edited by fmw; 05-27-14 at 06:17 PM.

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    Re: China bans government use of Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    First of all, I don't suggest anyone install a 3rd party program...not even to get the start button. But if you really cannot live with out that thing, it's your choice to do so. You might consider that a little later this year MS will be releasing it's Update 2 that is expected to include a fully functioning start button. I posted a picture of it earlier in this thread.

    Second of all, I don't think it's the fault of MS that 3rd party programs stop working when MS releases an upgrade. That often happens...especially with drivers. If you paid for that 3rd party program to get the start button, I'm guessing they upgraded their program when it stopped working. I think they should provide that upgrade to you free of charge.

    Third...I didn't use the start button in Win7 so I have no need for it in Win8. Sorry, but I haven't looked at any of those 3rd party programs. I can give you this link from a very credible source who did a review of a bunch of those programs. Best Windows 8 Start Menu | Maximum PC

    I hope this helps.

    Oh...I should mention that if all you want to do is to boot directly to the desktop, it's very easy to do with Win8.1. See this link: How to Boot to the Desktop in Windows 8 & Windows 8.1

    I should also mention that Win8.1 Update 1 sets booting to desktop as the default action if you are using a PC. If you haven't installed Update 1 yet, you should.
    I agree with you. For those who are interested in a Win 7 style start button I found a freeware third party one at classicshell.net. I put it on one of the Win 8.1 computers and tested it. Solid as a rock. Looks just like Win 7. It was good enough that I installed it also on my second Win 8 system. Makes using 8.1 on a desktop system easier and faster. Problem solved.

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    Re: China bans government use of Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    So...you are trying to tell me that Win8 doesn't work well in desktop mode? I don't know...I haven't had any problems in that regard. Perhaps you can tell me exactly what doesn't work well, eh? Be aware, that "expert" already blew it when he talked about content production and multitasking.

    Actually...you might start with explaining exactly what is meant by "not optimized for desktop use" (your words) or "optimized for content consumption rather than content production and multitasking" (that so-called expert's words).
    As far as I can tell, it's meaningless. OS's handle the hardware, so the code is optimized to do things like work with the display. Since the display is (one of) the devices we use to consume content, that means "the OS is optimized for content consumption".

    Content production is an app. Apps like Photoshop, Word, and ProTools are used to create content. OS's don't "optimize apps". They optimize the use of CPU, etc but they don't "optimize apps"
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: China bans government use of Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Years ago I owned and operated a computer systems integration company. One of the experiences that business gave me was that of building 1000's of computers. I still build my own but haven't built them for anyone else for quite some time. Once a computer gets water cooled it can be fairly pricey. I suspect that it would cost me about $2500 to build a state of the art water cooled gaming computer. I would probably sell it for around $3500 so Mycrofts's system doesn't seem to be out of line to me for what it is. I've built professional AV recording workstations that sold for over $5000. For under a $1000 you can have a machine that will do about anything other than hi res gaming or perhaps video editing. A business computer doesn't require much computing power and internet surfing even less. I wouldn't recommend spending over $1000 for any business work station. But a hi tech gaming computer is a different animal. Almost all are custom built and the parts cost can get pretty high pretty quickly. I don't really mean to join the argument. I'm just trying to put some perspective on things.
    To be perfectly honest and upfront, I should mention that I could have probably spent a little less on my parts than I did.

    There is a computer shop in town that I've gone to for years. The guys there have decent prices, they've provided a wealth of knowledge and I've enjoyed talking computer stuff with them. I could have priced each component online and most certainly could have found a cheaper price from one place or another. Instead, I went with this local shop, cheerfully forked over their markup (I'm guessing that to be a couple hundred dollars or so) and insured that my money was helping my local businessmen.
    TANSTAAFL

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    Re: China bans government use of Windows 8

    I wish we would ban W8. What a miserable piece of **** it is.

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    Re: China bans government use of Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    A year and a half ago, the 770 and the 4770K were not available. That means your opinion of what I spent then compared to what can be spent now is akin to comparing apples to oranges.


    Thank you for missing the point. As usual.

    Now...just because you are willing to spend a minute amount of money to play a game at inferior graphics settings doesn't mean I spent too much money to play a game at it's top graphics settings.
    Umm, no, the fact you spent $3500 on a machine does that.

    Like I've said, you're welcome to spend your money however you'd like, obviously. But you definitely strike me as the type who spends that much, not because he has to, but because it's a source of pride. You're proud of how much you spent on your machine (that much is obvious) so it doesn't seem to me as if you're nearly so concerned about the components as you are the price. And that's certainly your prerogative, just don't sit there and try to tell people how great your knowledge of computers is because you spent $3500 and use that to justify your support of the terrible Windows 8 operating system. Which is exactly what you tried to do.

    btw, you are out of your mind when you say that the 4770K is roughly the same as my processor.
    Not when you're comparing performance. That was my point.

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    Re: China bans government use of Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post


    Thank you for missing the point. As usual.

    Umm, no, the fact you spent $3500 on a machine does that.

    Like I've said, you're welcome to spend your money however you'd like, obviously. But you definitely strike me as the type who spends that much, not because he has to, but because it's a source of pride. You're proud of how much you spent on your machine (that much is obvious) so it doesn't seem to me as if you're nearly so concerned about the components as you are the price. And that's certainly your prerogative, just don't sit there and try to tell people how great your knowledge of computers is because you spent $3500 and use that to justify your support of the terrible Windows 8 operating system. Which is exactly what you tried to do.

    Not when you're comparing performance. That was my point.
    Performance? Your own link shows that the 3930K's performance is at least 15% better than the 4770K. That can hardly be considered "roughly the same".

    Since you are comfortable spewing nonsense about processors, I'm not surprised you would be spewing nonsense about OS's. Fortunately for me...unfortunately for you...I don't have to listen to your nonsense if I don't want to.

    You are dismissed.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: China bans government use of Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    As far as I can tell, it's meaningless. OS's handle the hardware, so the code is optimized to do things like work with the display. Since the display is (one of) the devices we use to consume content, that means "the OS is optimized for content consumption".

    Content production is an app. Apps like Photoshop, Word, and ProTools are used to create content. OS's don't "optimize apps". They optimize the use of CPU, etc but they don't "optimize apps"
    Well said. Much of IT lingo seems to be designed to obfuscate for some reason. Perhaps for the same reasons doctors use latin.

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    Re: China bans government use of Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Well said. Much of IT lingo seems to be designed to obfuscate for some reason. Perhaps for the same reasons doctors use latin.
    Not really. Used properly, IT terms clarify. Take the word "optimize". It refers to practice of altering code so that accomplishes its' intended task as quickly as possible. That is crystal clear

    But it becomes unclear when people (often journalists writing about tech) use the word to mean "make better" as in "optimize for content creation". Computers don't create content; People do and when they do they use computers as a tool
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: China bans government use of Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Performance? Your own link shows that the 3930K's performance is at least 15% better than the 4770K. That can hardly be considered "roughly the same".
    Uhh, yes, it is roughly the same when you compare in general, especially for the reason you claim to have bought it.

    Since you are comfortable spewing nonsense about processors
    Except I'm not.

    I'm not surprised you would be spewing nonsense about OS's.
    Except I'm not. Your sole defense was "well, I didn't have any problems" when presented with mountains of evidence of Windows 8 problems. The only person spewing nonsense is the person who thinks his personal anecdote erases copious amounts of issues.

    Fortunately for me...unfortunately for you...I don't have to listen to your nonsense if I don't want to.

    You are dismissed.
    That was cute. You can go along if you'd like. I'd probably try to leave also if I was in the position of defending Windows 8.

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