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Thread: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win[W:48]

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I really just wish we'd make SSM legal across the Republic and move on with our lives. We've got bigger fish to fry...like why the **** are we still at war after more than a decade? Why has the government grown so big? Why is there so much spying and data collection?

    Same sex couples share the same rights to contract as heterosexual couples and we just need to realize this and move on. Things are getting f'd up out there though, and all the gay marriage in the world ain't gonna fix it.
    I don't know, if everyone got gay married I think it would solve a lot of problems.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    "A federal judge on Monday struck down Oregon's voter-approved ban on gay marriage, saying it is unconstitutional.

    U.S. District Judge Michael McShane said the ban unconstitutionally discriminates against same-sex couples and ordered the state not to enforce it. State officials earlier refused to defend the constitutional ban in court.
    McShane joined judges in seven other states who have struck down gay marriage bans, though appeals are underway.
    Oregon state officials have said they'd be prepared to carry out same-sex marriages almost immediately, and couples lined up outside the county clerk's office in Portland in anticipation of the McShane's decision." - Source

    It's the domino effect.
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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Washington Florist Who Refused Gay Wedding Job Says She 'Had To Take A Stand'

    Supreme Court won't hear case on gay wedding snub

    When these marriages become legal, they are used to force people to violate their religious beliefs and face damnation or persecution
    No they won't. No one has to marry one. No religion has to marry any one. And a florist isn't in the business of approving or not approving weddings. Their rights are not at all violated.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I really just wish we'd make SSM legal across the Republic and move on with our lives. We've got bigger fish to fry...like why the **** are we still at war after more than a decade? Why has the government grown so big? Why is there so much spying and data collection?

    Same sex couples share the same rights to contract as heterosexual couples and we just need to realize this and move on. Things are getting f'd up out there though, and all the gay marriage in the world ain't gonna fix it.
    Actually I'm thinking the solution is simple: states should not issue marriage licenses at all, just civil union licenses. Just think what that would do..... it could no longer redefine what marriage is under the law. If a man and a woman want a marriage in the traditional sense, it is up to them to define that marriage through a religious ceremony etc. But everyone else wanting for legal purposes to recognize their union could be recognized through a civil union license. But until that compromise is discovered by both sides of the aisle, the real threat of gay marriage isn't against traditional marriage, it is against the First Amendment. Not only are activist federal judges involved in this overturning of what the majority of people in many states desire is marriage defined between a man and a woman, we have seen what these activists will do to trample the rights of a cake decorator, photographer, a florist, and there seems no limit to many leftist appointed federal judges who are more than willing to trample the 1st Amendment rights of others in the name of gayness.....how long will it be before a church who denies a ceremony to a gay couple ends up in court accused of violating another's civil rights and an activist judge willingly throw the book at them? The reading of the constitutional law has been bastardized with new revisionist meaning. Kill marriage licenses and it all goes away.
    Last edited by vesper; 05-19-14 at 10:22 PM.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    States have that power under the 10th, not the feds. The Public Accommodation laws are federal. The PA law is not constitutional federally and must be adopted state by state to become constitutional. I don't believe they've met that bar, ever. So any use of the commerce clause in their regard is a non-starter.

    Sweetcakes By Mellisa (Oregon) - found in violation of State Public Accommodation laws.

    Elane Photography (New Mexico) - found in violation of State Public Accommodation laws.

    Masterpiece Cakes (Colorado) - found in violation of State Public Accommodation laws.



    I think if you check you will find every State has it's own Public Accommodation law and (IIRC) 29 of them plus the District of Columbia include sexual orientation as an area where businesses cannot discriminate.

    There have been NO charges of discrimination under Federal Public Accommodation law based on sexual orientation because it is not included. All cases have been under State law.


    >>>>

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Sweetcakes By Mellisa (Oregon) - found in violation of State Public Accommodation laws.

    Elane Photography (New Mexico) - found in violation of State Public Accommodation laws.

    Masterpiece Cakes (Colorado) - found in violation of State Public Accommodation laws.



    I think if you check you will find every State has it's own Public Accommodation law and (IIRC) 29 of them plus the District of Columbia include sexual orientation as an area where businesses cannot discriminate.

    There have been NO charges of discrimination under Federal Public Accommodation law based on sexual orientation because it is not included. All cases have been under State law.


    >>>>
    Thank you, you are correct. I misunderstood your initial post.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I really just wish we'd make SSM legal across the Republic and move on with our lives. We've got bigger fish to fry...like why the **** are we still at war after more than a decade? Why has the government grown so big? Why is there so much spying and data collection?

    Same sex couples share the same rights to contract as heterosexual couples and we just need to realize this and move on. Things are getting f'd up out there though, and all the gay marriage in the world ain't gonna fix it.
    Actually I'm thinking the solution is simple: states should not issue marriage licenses at all, just civil union licenses. Just think what that would do..... it could no longer redefine what marriage is under the law. If a man and a woman want a marriage in the traditional sense, it is up to them to define that marriage through a religious ceremony etc. But everyone else wanting for legal purposes to recognize their union could be recognized through a civil union license. But until that compromise is discovered by both sides of the aisle, the real threat of gay marriage isn't against traditional marriage, it is against the First Amendment. Not only are activist federal judges involved in this overturning of what the majority of people in each state desire, we have seen what these activists will do to trample the rights of a cake decorator, photographer, a florist, and there seems no limit to many leftist appointed federal judges who are more than willing to trample the 1st Amendment rights of others in the name of gayness.....how long will it be before a church who denies a ceremony to a gay couple ends up in court accused of violating another's civil rights and an activist judge willing to throw the book at them? The reading of the constitutional law has been bastardized with new revisionist meaning. Kill marriage licenses and it all goes away.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Actually I'm thinking the solution is simple: states should not issue marriage licenses at all, just civil union licenses. Just think what that would do..... it could no longer redefine what marriage is under the law.
    Personally I'd have no problem with that at all as long as they were issued equally. Everyone would still call it marriage and in a generation or two the issue would be over and the term "marriage" for what it is would return to the legal lexicon. But in reality it is a fine temporary step.

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    If a man and a woman want a marriage in the traditional sense, it is up to them to define that marriage through a religious ceremony etc.
    The same would hold true for a man and a man getting a religious marriage and a woman and a woman getting a religious marriage.

    If a same sex couple want a marriage, it is up to them to define that marriage through a religious ceremony etc.

    You realize there are many Churches and relgious organizations that perform religious weddings for same-sex couples right?


    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    But everyone else wanting for legal purposes to recognize their union could be recognized through a civil union license. But until that compromise is discovered by both sides of the aisle, the real threat of gay marriage isn't against traditional marriage, it is against the First Amendment. Not only are activist federal judges involved in this overturning of what the majority of people in many states desire is marriage defined between a man and a woman, we have seen what these activists will do to trample the rights of a cake decorator, photographer, a florist, and there seems no limit to many leftist appointed federal judges who are more than willing to trample the 1st Amendment rights of others in the name of gayness.....how long will it be before a church who denies a ceremony to a gay couple ends up in court accused of violating another's civil rights and an activist judge willingly throw the book at them? The reading of the constitutional law has been bastardized with new revisionist meaning. Kill marriage licenses and it all goes away.

    Just wondering. Do you support a business making a religious claim and being exempt from providing full and equal goods and services to blacks? Mexicans? The disabled? Jews? Muslims?

    If not, aren't their 1st Amendment rights being trampled also?


    (NOTE: I support the repeal of Public Accommodation laws and allowing private businesses to refuse service to any customer for any reason they choose whether it be race, sex, national origin, religion, or sexual orientation.)



    >>>>

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Personally I'd have no problem with that at all as long as they were issued equally. Everyone would still call it marriage and in a generation or two the issue would be over and the term "marriage" for what it is would return to the legal lexicon. But in reality it is a fine temporary step.



    The same would hold true for a man and a man getting a religious marriage and a woman and a woman getting a religious marriage.

    If a same sex couple want a marriage, it is up to them to define that marriage through a religious ceremony etc.

    You realize there are many Churches and relgious organizations that perform religious weddings for same-sex couples right?





    Just wondering. Do you support a business making a religious claim and being exempt from providing full and equal goods and services to blacks? Mexicans? The disabled? Jews? Muslims?

    If not, aren't their 1st Amendment rights being trampled also?


    (NOTE: I support the repeal of Public Accommodation laws and allowing private businesses to refuse service to any customer for any reason they choose whether it be race, sex, national origin, religion, or sexual orientation.)



    >>>>
    I believe the business owner has 1st Amendment rights that protect his moral conscience. If he believes providing a service for A. B. or C violates that conscience, he has a right to deny such service. And the person seeking such a service needs to move on to find one who will accommodate them. Period. There is legislation currently pending to protect the 1st Amendment rights of All not just a few.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Actually I'm thinking the solution is simple: states should not issue marriage licenses at all, just civil union licenses. Just think what that would do..... it could no longer redefine what marriage is under the law. If a man and a woman want a marriage in the traditional sense, it is up to them to define that marriage through a religious ceremony etc. But everyone else wanting for legal purposes to recognize their union could be recognized through a civil union license. But until that compromise is discovered by both sides of the aisle, the real threat of gay marriage isn't against traditional marriage, it is against the First Amendment. Not only are activist federal judges involved in this overturning of what the majority of people in many states desire is marriage defined between a man and a woman, we have seen what these activists will do to trample the rights of a cake decorator, photographer, a florist, and there seems no limit to many leftist appointed federal judges who are more than willing to trample the 1st Amendment rights of others in the name of gayness.....how long will it be before a church who denies a ceremony to a gay couple ends up in court accused of violating another's civil rights and an activist judge willingly throw the book at them? The reading of the constitutional law has been bastardized with new revisionist meaning. Kill marriage licenses and it all goes away.
    I believe I grasp what you posted, but I have a question. Do you mean that an officiating minister would somehow validate the civil union license issued by the State, if a couple wanted a "marriage license?" Would he have a form that stated on such-and-such a date, a religious ceremony was held in a church that wedded a man and a woman in the traditional sense? I think that would be a good idea for everyone, as you pointed out. There are a lot of jobs that depend upon weddings for their livelihood which would be lost otherwise. Under your plan, everyone would be legally "married" in the eyes of the government, but only those that held a wedding ceremony would consider themselves married rather than just "civil unioned?" There shouldn't be any stigma attached, since only the government-issued paper would be valid? hmmm...

    Greetings, Vesper.

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