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Thread: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win[W:48]

  1. #21
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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    It falls under the 10th Amendments power of the state to regulate commerce not beliefs.

    Public Accommodation laws have been upheld by the SCOTUS and State Supreme Courts as a proper regulation of commerce when the laws have general applicability and do not target specific religious beliefs.

    Public Accommodation laws have general applicability and require that business practices (actions, not belief) are subject to the rule of law and that equal qoods and service must be provide and cannot be denied in whole (or in part) based on race, religion, sex, national origin and in some state martial status, veteran's status, sexual orientation.


    Heart of Atlanta Motel, Inc. v. United States | LII / Legal Information Institute
    http://www.adfmedia.org/files/ElanePhotoNMSCopinion.pdf




    No business is forced to provide goods and services they don't normally provide. If a florist, baker, or photographer doesn't want to offer services to weddings - they are not required to, they can decline such commissions as long as they do it equally. The other side of that coin is that if they voluntarily decide to offer such services then they cannot discriminate against customers based on conditions outline in that States Public Accommodation law.



    >>>>
    The US Constitution only grants the power to regulate INTERSTATE commerce. I know, the SCOTUS has unconstitutionally expanded this to include nearly all commerce, but what they've done in that regard is against their oath and duty.

  2. #22
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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Washington Florist Who Refused Gay Wedding Job Says She 'Had To Take A Stand'

    Supreme Court won't hear case on gay wedding snub

    When these marriages become legal, they are used to force people to violate their religious beliefs and face damnation or persecution

    Incorrect. Actually the three most prominent cases (one of which you site) to gain national attention - Sweetcakes by Mellisa (Oregon), Elane Photography (New Mexico), and Masterpiece Cakes (Colorado) - are all states where there was no Same-sex Civil Marriage. The issue was not that the States had Same-sex Civil Marriage, because they didn't. The issue was discrimination under Public Accommodation laws.


    Civil Marriage laws are between the couple and the State. Public Accommodation laws regulate business. I wish people would recognize the difference. Absolutely same-sex couples should be allowed to Civilly Marry (IMHO). On the other hand Public Accommodation laws should be repealed as they usurp the rights of property and association for the business owner. Business owners should have the power to say "No" to any customer they wish for any reason they wish including race, religion, national origin, sex, or sexual orientation. And customers should have to the right to make discriminatory practices of a business public knowledge and let market forces determine if a business succeeds, fails or changes.


    >>>>

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The US Constitution only grants the power to regulate INTERSTATE commerce. I know, the SCOTUS has unconstitutionally expanded this to include nearly all commerce, but what they've done in that regard is against their oath and duty.

    Elane Photography - the case to which you linked was a case under State Public Accommodation laws decided by the New Mexico Supreme Court. They appealed to the SCOTUS who declined to hear the case meaning that States can regulate commerce within the State.



    >>>>

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Elane Photography - the case to which you linked was a case under State Public Accommodation laws decided by the New Mexico Supreme Court. They appealed to the SCOTUS who declined to hear the case meaning that States can regulate commerce within the State.



    >>>>
    You're answering the wrong poster. I posted no such link, just rebutted your inaccurate spin on the US Constitution and the powers granted.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You're answering the wrong poster. I posted no such link,
    You have my apologies, the screen had rolled up. Sorry about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    just rebutted your inaccurate spin on the US Constitution and the powers granted.

    I'm sorry, don't state have the power to regulate in-state commerce under the 10th Amendment when such laws have general applicability?

    Have not Public Accommodation laws existed for centuries (even going back to common law and the "inn keepers rule" (cited in Heartland of Atlanta Hotel v. United States) and have they not been upheld at the federal level buy the SCOTUS and at the State level by State Supreme Courts?

    What part of what I said, specifically speaking, was inaccurate?


    >>>>

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    You have my apologies, the screen had rolled up. Sorry about that.




    I'm sorry, don't state have the power to regulate in-state commerce under the 10th Amendment when such laws have general applicability?

    Have not Public Accommodation laws existed for centuries (even going back to common law and the "inn keepers rule" (cited in Heartland of Atlanta Hotel v. United States) and have they not been upheld at the federal level buy the SCOTUS and at the State level by State Supreme Courts?

    What part of what I said, specifically speaking, was inaccurate?


    >>>>
    States have that power under the 10th, not the feds. The Public Accommodation laws are federal. The PA law is not constitutional federally and must be adopted state by state to become constitutional. I don't believe they've met that bar, ever. So any use of the commerce clause in their regard is a non-starter.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No one cares for your sicko fantasies, keep them to yourself. And btw, we DID participate - we voted to not allow homosexual marriage.
    And back during Jim Crow, the majority would have voted to keep Jim Crow, too...but that wouldn't have made it right. Prejudice is prejudice is prejudice.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Washington Florist Who Refused Gay Wedding Job Says She 'Had To Take A Stand'

    Supreme Court won't hear case on gay wedding snub

    When these marriages become legal, they are used to force people to violate their religious beliefs and face damnation or persecution
    Would you please show me where in the Bible that homosexuals are any worse than, say, atheists or those who believe in different gods? Would those people who refused to sell wedding flowers to a gay couple have refused to sell flowers to an atheist couple? Or to a Buddhist or Islamic couple? Or, what about to a couple that belonged to a different "Christian" denomination that the couple's religion said would not be saved, say, if they were Baptist and the couple was Mormon? If the business would not refuse to sell flowers to the atheists or Islamists or different "Christian" denomination, then they are hypocrites, and deserving of zero sympathy.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    I am still trying to figure out the part of the Constitution that says you have to suspend your religious beliefs and be forced to participate in these unholy matrimonies if you have a business.
    At the same time you'll claim defining marriage is a state right, but defining characteristics for anti discrimination laws isn't?

    Health codes violate my religion because I believe all illnesses are the will of god. Can I run a restaurant that holds out to the public?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    "A federal judge on Monday struck down Oregon's voter-approved ban on gay marriage, saying it is unconstitutional.

    U.S. District Judge Michael McShane said the ban unconstitutionally discriminates against same-sex couples and ordered the state not to enforce it. State officials earlier refused to defend the constitutional ban in court.
    McShane joined judges in seven other states who have struck down gay marriage bans, though appeals are underway.
    Oregon state officials have said they'd be prepared to carry out same-sex marriages almost immediately, and couples lined up outside the county clerk's office in Portland in anticipation of the McShane's decision." - Source

    It's the domino effect.
    I really just wish we'd make SSM legal across the Republic and move on with our lives. We've got bigger fish to fry...like why the **** are we still at war after more than a decade? Why has the government grown so big? Why is there so much spying and data collection?

    Same sex couples share the same rights to contract as heterosexual couples and we just need to realize this and move on. Things are getting f'd up out there though, and all the gay marriage in the world ain't gonna fix it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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