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Thread: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win[W:48]

  1. #121
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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    There won't be many more so enjoy it while you can.

    I seem to remember this exact same post multiple times over the course of the last year, each time followed by another one.

    Pretty soon you will be right though, as there won't be any left.



    >>>>

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Sorry you find it unacceptable for a person to dare have a moral conscience and act on it and/ or be forced to violate it in order to make a living.
    Well thanks for the info on the case of the photographer. I noticed the Supremes refused to comment on why it was denied. Guess it is up to states to pass protection laws to give businesses the right to refuse to deal with customers based on religious or moral conscience objections wherever they can. And then again there is Congress.
    why did society find it ok to disregard people who felt it was morally unconscionable to treat blacks equally, serve them, etc...but not gays? Both have had their roots in religious beliefs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    There won't be many more so enjoy it while you can.
    ???? Most have already flipped or are preparing to. All challenges so far have failed.

    WA is on Planet Earth....so are you in some parallel universe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Good morning Lursa,

    You are certainly welcome to your opinion. Here's mine.

    Our right to conscience makes up who were are as individuals. From our moral conscience we discern what is right and wrong. Often, but not always, this stems from religious beliefs. Most state constitutions recognize the importance of protecting a person's right to conscience as it is deeply tied to religious liberty. Some state governments have enacted conscience protection laws. In addition, federal law conditions receipt of certain federal funds on respect for conscience in particular situations. These protections reflect the high value a civil society places on religious and moral conscience. But we have to vigilantly protect them because there is an ever growing group of judges and legislators that do not respect the moral conscience of individuals resulting in this culture war we seem to be in the midst of. They seem to have this mentality that your moral conscience comes second or not at all when it comes to accommodation laws and in the end the one who is denied his moral conscience is the one that was discriminated against the most for he is not allowed to be who he is in the public square. This isn't just happening in regard to same sex marriage. The health care field is riddled with difficult moral issues including abortion, contraception, artificial reproductive technologies, euthanasia, and assisted suicide. Health care providers with moral or religious objections to participating in these and other procedures face threats to conscience. The threats can be loss of a job for refusing to participate or be sued for denying a service that is against their moral conscience. Another area where moral conscience is being attacked is social welfare. Religious organizations such as adoption agencies, nursing homes or orphanages are forced to comply with the “official” state position on controversial moral issues, the potential for infringement of religious liberty and rights of conscience is clear as more and more of these organizations can not comply with the "official" state position for it is in conflict with their moral conscience and society ends up losing dearly with the loss of their services. While you see it solely as a discrimination issue toward the one denied a service you are more than willing to force another to deny his moral conscience in order to comply with what you think is right forcing him to a point of facing costly legal bills and losing his livelihood and unable to provide for his family. When a person is forced to compromise his moral conscience he has been denied the most important part of his freedom.
    So do you think slavery is morally acceptable? If not, why not?

    The Biblical writers did.
    Last edited by Ceist; 05-22-14 at 04:48 AM.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    When you go into a place of business such as a bakery, does the baker ask you if you are an adulterer, a fornicator, a thief, or if you covet your neighbor's house? NO. Do they ask you what faith you practice? NO. Do they ask you your ethnicity? NO. Does he ask you your sexual preference? No. As long as you are a paying customer your order is filled until the customer presents them with a specific request that violates their moral conscience. Say a customer came in and asked for a cake depicting 42 DD breasts or a woman's crotch for a bachelor party. Or maybe a cake shaped like an erected penis. Doesn't he have a right to deny his service because what is being asked of him he finds demoralizing? Shouldn't he be allowed to protect his name by not creating something that does not represent who he is? To many marriage is between a man and a woman and God. To force them to create a cake for something they find to be an abomination to God is unfair.
    Like the 'devoutly Christian' Colorado baker who refused to sell a cake to a gay couple because of his 'deeply sincere' religious beliefs about marriage but accepted an order for a wedding cake for a DOG wedding?

    Yeah... right.

  6. #126
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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I am well aware of what the law states. That is why legislation or possibly a Supreme Court case will bring protection to anyone who finds themselves in a position of being forced to violate their own conscience whether it be the baker, the health care provider, the attorney, the social welfare worker etc. That they will be protected without fear of the loss of their livelihood or faced with legal battles and economic ruin.
    Will you ever answer my question about recurrent aircraft training for pilots? That violates my conscience and my religion. Should I be exempt?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  7. #127
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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceist View Post
    Like the 'devoutly Christian' Colorado baker who refused to sell a cake to a gay couple because of his 'deeply sincere' religious beliefs about marriage but accepted an order for a wedding cake for a DOG wedding?

    Yeah... right.
    Also: Pagan solstice party, divorce party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonin Scalia
    'preserving the traditional institution of marriage’ is just a kinder way of describing the State’s moral disapproval of same-sex couples.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No one cares for your sicko fantasies, keep them to yourself. And btw, we DID participate - we voted to not allow homosexual marriage.
    And you should be sued by gay couples there and disenfranchised for violating Equal Protection

  9. #129
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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Sorry you find it unacceptable for a person to dare have a moral conscience and act on it and/ or be forced to violate it in order to make a living.
    Well thanks for the info on the case of the photographer. I noticed the Supremes refused to comment on why it was denied. Guess it is up to states to pass protection laws to give businesses the right to refuse to deal with customers based on religious or moral conscience objections wherever they can. And then again there is Congress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    why did society find it ok to disregard people who felt it was morally unconscionable to treat blacks equally, serve them, etc...but not gays? Both have had their roots in religious beliefs.
    I think this is a valid question considering your stated position on this subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #130
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    Re: Oregon Ruling Marks 13th Straight Gay Marriage Win

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    So...here's a question. If someone has the right to not allow people into their business because they don't like those peoples' lifestyle or color or religion or whatever, do business owners then have the right to refuse to allow people legally carrying firearms into their business? I mean, I understand that we have 2A rights...but are 2A rights somehow more 'special' than the color one is at birth? Do we have freedom of religion? Of course. Does the Constitution have the equal protection clause? Of course.

    So if the business owner cannot refuse someone carrying firearms because carrying those firearms is their constitutional right, then that business owner cannot refuse to serve others who have a constitutional right to be the color they're born, to worship as they will, to love whom they will.
    Actually, even in Texas, if a business posts a sign saying "No guns", you can't bring your gun in. Even with a conceal carry permit.

    The equal protection clause applies to the states, not to businesses.

    No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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