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Russia and China Move Into Central America

apdst said:
We havent acted nothing like Russia or China.
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Your statement is so full of baloney it's funny. One need only to know how to search on the internet to find clear evidence that we supported dictators who used death squads to murder thousands of dissenters. Here is video of the Iran-Contra hearings, for one. And Saddam Hussein? We supported him too, while it was in our interests to do so. Yea, go ahead and plug your ears and close your eyes, and say it never happened. However, no matter how much you might want to rewrite history, the evidence is still there, and always will be. You aren't going to convince anybody of something in which hard evidence is out there that shows what you are saying is pure baloney.

 
danarhea said:
Your statement is so full of baloney it's funny. One need only to know how to search on the internet to find clear evidence that we supported dictators who used death squads to murder thousands of dissenters. Here is video of the Iran-Contra hearings, for one. And Saddam Hussein? We supported him too, while it was in our interests to do so. Yea, go ahead and plug your ears and close your eyes, and say it never happened. However, no matter how much you might want to rewrite history, the evidence is still there, and always will be. You aren't going to convince anybody of something in which hard evidence is out there that shows what you are saying is pure baloney.

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Did I ever say we didn't? However, we never did that and worse on the same level as Russia and China.
 
apdst said:
Did I ever say we didn't? However, we never did that and worse on the same level as Russia and China.
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Glad to see your admission. Feel better about it because it wasn't quite as bad as China's crimes. Glad you turned the light on yourself.
 
danarhea said:
Your statement is so full of baloney it's funny. One need only to know how to search on the internet to find clear evidence that we supported dictators who used death squads to murder thousands of dissenters. Here is video of the Iran-Contra hearings, for one. And Saddam Hussein? We supported him too, while it was in our interests to do so. Yea, go ahead and plug your ears and close your eyes, and say it never happened. However, no matter how much you might want to rewrite history, the evidence is still there, and always will be. You aren't going to convince anybody of something in which hard evidence is out there that shows what you are saying is pure baloney.

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Where is it mentioned anywhere that "we supported dictators who used death squads to murder thousands of dissenters"? You shouldn't just look it up on the internet expecting it to say what you believe what you think it will say.

Keep in mind that this all took place during the Cold War when there was a great deal of anti American propaganda coming from the left. To continue with the same propaganda in the following decades is a naivety, or misunderstanding, that is almost surreal.
 
Montecresto said:
The point apdst, is that Russia and China aren't the measuring stick for US foreign policy, we profess respect for IL and we have a constitution that when followed, would set us above those countries.
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What is the measuring stick? When the USA behaves in a more moral fashion than any of their enemies they still get all the blame. That's why I see far more criticism on these boards about the United States than Russia, China, and any Muslim dominated country, or anywhere else in the world. George Bush gets more criticism than Mao, Stalin, Saddam or every despot ever did.

The education process in the United States has failed its people to an alarming degree.
 
Grant said:
Where is it mentioned anywhere that "we supported dictators who used death squads to murder thousands of dissenters"? You shouldn't just look it up on the internet expecting it to say what you believe what you think it will say.

Keep in mind that this all took place during the Cold War when there was a great deal of anti American propaganda coming from the left. To continue with the same propaganda in the following decades is a naivety, or misunderstanding, that is almost surreal.
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Looks like you didn't watch the link. It is actual footage from the Iran-Contra hearings. This isn't from the left at all. It's from actual proceedings. DUH......
 
danarhea said:
Looks like you didn't watch the link. It is actual footage from the Iran-Contra hearings. This isn't from the left at all. It's from actual proceedings. DUH......
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I know where it's from and asked you a question concerning that video. I'm very familiar with these hearings but it seems you are not.

The message you took from that video, which you have never seen, originated with leftist propaganda about 'death squads' and the like. No worries because many naive leftists all over the world have sucked up that crap. Americans, and Canadians, should know better though.
 
Grant said:
I know where it's from and asked you a question concerning that video. I'm very familiar with these hearings but it seems you are not.

The message you took from that video, which you have never seen, originated with leftist propaganda about 'death squads' and the like. No worries because many naive leftists all over the world have sucked up that crap. Americans, and Canadians, should know better though.
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If you are familiar with the footage, then you are blatantly lying. My guess is that you are unfamiliar with the footage, and don't know what you are talking about.
 
Grant said:
What is the measuring stick? When the USA behaves in a more moral fashion than any of their enemies they still get all the blame. That's why I see far more criticism on these boards about the United States than Russia, China, and any Muslim dominated country, or anywhere else in the world. George Bush gets more criticism than Mao, Stalin, Saddam or every despot ever did.

The education process in the United States has failed its people to an alarming degree.
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Look at you whine. Obama gets his ass kicked here everyday, and all you could mention is Bush. Who knows how many times it will take to sink in for you, I've made it abundantly clear that as an American, I'm concerned with what my money and representatives are doing around the world. It's for the citizens of Russia and China to deal with their leadership about what they are up to abroad. Our measuring stick is our constitution. And when we have a president circumventing congress to sell arms to our "enemy" or a president circumventing congress to supply arms to terrorist organisations, our constitution is being stepped on (not to mention IL) and our image is diminished, and of course human rights are violated, people suffer and die.
 
Grant said:
What is the measuring stick? When the USA behaves in a more moral fashion than any of their enemies they still get all the blame. That's why I see far more criticism on these boards about the United States than Russia, China, and any Muslim dominated country, or anywhere else in the world. George Bush gets more criticism than Mao, Stalin, Saddam or every despot ever did.

The education process in the United States has failed its people to an alarming degree.
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True, but the indoctrination and brainwashing process is highly refined and goes on 24/7, very successfully.
 
danarhea said:
Looks like you didn't watch the link. It is actual footage from the Iran-Contra hearings. This isn't from the left at all. It's from actual proceedings. DUH......
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I suppose you're joking now. I know it's from Iran/Contra, you know it's from Iran/Contra. You win. The US is evil and kills pregnant women and babies.
 
Henry David said:
True, but the indoctrination and brainwashing process is highly refined and goes on 24/7, very successfully.
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It certainly does, but many obviously don't see it, know about it or understand it. It doesn't have to be all that refined though.
 
Montecresto said:
Look at you whine. Obama gets his ass kicked here everyday, and all you could mention is Bush. Who knows how many times it will take to sink in for you, I've made it abundantly clear that as an American, I'm concerned with what my money and representatives are doing around the world. It's for the citizens of Russia and China to deal with their leadership about what they are up to abroad. Our measuring stick is our constitution. And when we have a president circumventing congress to sell arms to our "enemy" or a president circumventing congress to supply arms to terrorist organisations, our constitution is being stepped on (not to mention IL) and our image is diminished, and of course human rights are violated, people suffer and die.
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I get it, I really do.

During WWII you would have been critical of FDR and silent on Hitler and Mussolini. It's very clear that you can only criticize Americans and their leaders. No need to explain your position further.
 
Grant said:
I suppose you're joking now. I know it's from Iran/Contra, you know it's from Iran/Contra. You win. The US is evil and kills pregnant women and babies.
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We don't, but have supported dictators who did that. And THIS is what separates us from Russia and China---> We the people do have the power to stop this kind of immoral behavior by the government. America IS We the People.
 
danarhea said:
We don't, but have supported dictators who did that. And THIS is what separates us from Russia and China---> We the people do have the power to stop this kind of immoral behavior by the government. America IS We the People.
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Which dictator was the USA supporting which led to these hearings?
 
Grant said:
It certainly does, but many obviously don't see it, know about it or understand it. It doesn't have to be all that refined though.
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Considering that Edward Bernays was hired by Woodrow Wilson POTUS for the purpose of "public relations" to make the case for US entry into WWI, the general practice has been employed for more than a century.

Safe bet it's pretty darn refined. Bernays did not have the TV to work with, and the human tendency towards being mesmerized by that tube. ;)
 
Grant said:
I get it, I really do.

During WWII you would have been critical of FDR and silent on Hitler and Mussolini. It's very clear that you can only criticize Americans and their leaders. No need to explain your position further.
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It's very clear, yes. That as an American with skin in the game, I critique American policies. It's easy to criticise Russia and China and we could do it all day every day and likely not run out of material. But holding your own accountable takes grown ups.
 
Henry David said:
Considering that Edward Bernays was hired by Woodrow Wilson POTUS for the purpose of "public relations" to make the case for US entry into WWI, the general practice has been employed for more than a century.

Safe bet it's pretty darn refined. Bernays did not have the TV to work with, and the human tendency towards being mesmerized by that tube. ;)
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For whatever reason, I find that the majority are unable to accept this. It's the same on a personal level. Easy to point the finger at the other guy and expose his sins, but self examination comes much harder. Easy for the bad ass, patronising and patriotic American to criticise Egypt, China, Russia, etc. but accepting responsibility (or even acknowledging) for Americas crimes against humanity is like pulling hens teeth.
 
Americans seem to have some sort of political myopia, especially as to the 2 party system. But it stumbles along.
 
Montecresto said:
It's very clear, yes. That as an American with skin in the game, I critique American policies. It's easy to criticise Russia and China and we could do it all day every day and likely not run out of material. But holding your own accountable takes grown ups.
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Holding your own accountable is fine, of course, but not when the truth is lost or this criticism is only in one direction.

By making America the main source of evil in the world your giving a pass to the genuine bad guys, and don't think they don't appreciate it. If you believe that only criticizing your own country is going to help, when many others hold quite a different opinion, your only contributing to the confusion and malaise that is so commonplace in America today. Lenin summed it up nicely.
 
The sad part is that America (her government) has done this to herself.

I think it was Katy Perry that described her self inflicted wound. ;)

That's the sad part.
 
Henry David said:
Americans seem to have some sort of political myopia, especially as to the 2 party system. But it stumbles along.
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It has stumbled along for over 230 years where many dozens of other countries have failed. But now America is imploding on itself, the first time this has happened on such a scale, and I doubt it will last another lifetime.
 
Henry David said:
The sad part is that America (her government) has done this to herself.

I think it was Katy Perry that described her self inflicted wound. ;)

That's the sad part.
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No, the people did it. This is what they wanted and this is what they defend.
 
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