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Thread: Russia and China Move Into Central America

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    Re: Russia and China Move Into Central America

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Obama wouldn't have it any other way.
    While I don't want China, Russia or Iran in South or Central America, what would you suggest we do about it?

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    Re: Russia and China Move Into Central America

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Wtf is Obama suppose to do about Nicaragua inviting China and Russia to a construction project. And why should he try to do anything?
    I would not expect you to be able to see it. You feel this insufficiency and that is why you so like expletives, I presume.

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    Re: Russia and China Move Into Central America

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I would not expect you to be able to see it. You feel this insufficiency and that is why you so like expletives, I presume.
    Well tell us then, what IS Obama suppose to do about it?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Russia and China Move Into Central America

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why not do some real research. Do you seriously believe that Cuba and Russia were there to help the Nicaraguan people?? Did you know for example that over 400,000 people fled Nicaragua after the Communist dictatorship took control? Do you have any understanding at all of what the Communists did throughout the world??

    That you, as well as many other leftists, actually believe Cold War Wiki link propaganda is a black mark against the US education system and the ignorance of what really happened during that period.

    Here's a history lesson. Nicaragua is on page 665. http://www.germanvictims.com/wp-cont...-communism.pdf

    And a REAL history lesson for you.

    As I stated already, the Monroe Doctrine was not always good for Latin America. While it may have denied European imperialism in the hemisphere, it resulted in a form of US interference that Latin Americans grew to hate. To this day there's strong opposition to US interference there. Many countries were "independent" in name only, but essentially US protectorates.

    They (Latin American countries) resented U.S. involvement as YANKEE IMPERIALISM, and animosity against their large neighbor to the North grew dramatically. By the end of the 20th century, the United States would send troops of invasion to Latin America over 35 times, establishing an undisputed sphere of influence throughout the hemisphere.

    http://www.ushistory.org/us/44e.asp
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Russia and China Move Into Central America

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The Nicaraguan seeds of democracy?? Yes, Reagan deserves credit for this certainly.
    Is this tongue-in-cheek?

    I was married to a Nicaraguan during those days, and your apparent grasp of historical events down there is woefully inadequate.

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    Re: Russia and China Move Into Central America

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How can it be a good point if its false? Do you have any idea at all what the Communists did in Nicaragua? Ever visited there or talked to the people?
    US interference continued with the building of the Panama Canal. Though the US secured (thru treaty) a lease from Columbia on a six mile wide swath of land thru panama, which was under Colombian control, Roosevelt refused to pay Colombians price and (using the big stick) sent gun boats to the shores of Columbia to force the deal, supported the break away of Panama from Columbia and had the canal.

    Additionally,

    When fear of spreading communism gripped the United States after World War II, it would often intervene in Latin America in favor of conservative dictators. One famous example took place in Guatemala in 1954, when the CIA ousted leftist president Jacobo Arbenz from power for threatening to nationalize some lands held by the United Fruit Company, which was owned by Americans. The CIA would later attempt to assassinate Cuban communist leader Fidel Castro in addition to mounting the infamous Bay of Pigs invasion. There are many more examples, too numerous to list here. CIA involvement in Latin America facilitated the overthrow of many a Latin American democratically elected government in favor of dictatorship. This gave rise to men like Chavez, Correa, Morales and Mujica.


    And there are too numerous to mention here examples of US foreign policy and the use of Americas big stick, to enforce the interests of big business, such as the Guatemala/United Fruit example above!!
    Last edited by Montecresto; 07-02-14 at 09:13 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Russia and China Move Into Central America

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    They're already waging imperialistic wars of conquest like it's the 19th Century...
    I believe that an informed and effective U.S. foreign policy needs to consider the world as it truly is, not through the biases of idealistic but ungrounded assumptions ranging from messianic views that all peoples crave democracy (the so-called "Islamic State" has again rejected democracy calling it a false "idol") to utopian views that rules, alone, guide the conduct of foreign states (strategic interests and the balance of power drove Russia's decision with respect to Crimea). The notions that geopolitics, Realpolitik, balance of power, etc., are obsolete 19th or 20th century concepts are misplaced. Even as there is a strain of "new era" thinking in some (mainly U.S.) foreign policy circles that such concepts are obsolete, that does not make them so. They have great relevance so long as they are practice and numeorus great powers (Russia and China), along with other states, are practitioners. Hence, the "new era" thinking can only lead to rude surprises when other states behave in fashions that the "new era" thinkers don't expect based on the inherent flaws in their expectations. The world must be analyzed as it is, not how one wishes it to be.

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    Re: Russia and China Move Into Central America

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Is this tongue-in-cheek?

    I was married to a Nicaraguan during those days, and your apparent grasp of historical events down there is woefully inadequate.
    After multiple attempts of discussing this subject with him, I do believe his denial of the US' own brand of Latin American imperialism is just an attempt to cover the truth of well documented US policy injurious to the inhabitants of Latin America.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Russia and China Move Into Central America

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Is this tongue-in-cheek?

    I was married to a Nicaraguan during those days, and your apparent grasp of historical events down there is woefully inadequate.
    And what did she tell you about the Communists and the Contras who fought for Democracy (and eventually won!).

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    Re: Russia and China Move Into Central America

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    US interference continued with the building of the Panama Canal. Though the US secured (thru treaty) a lease from Columbia on a six mile wide swath of land thru panama, which was under Colombian control, Roosevelt refused to pay Colombians price and (using the big stick) sent gun boats to the shores of Columbia to force the deal, supported the break away of Panama from Columbia and had the canal.
    I think you'll find, should you ever visit the area, that the Panamanians were very pleased with the Canal
    Additionally, When fear of spreading communism gripped the United States after World War II,
    It didn't just 'grip' the United States. The Communists had already murdered several million people and were on there way to taking over Eastern Europe and almost had Italy and Greece. You seem unfamiliar what went on in Communist countries. It was there that the people were 'gripped with fear' and for good reason.
    it would often intervene in Latin America in favor of conservative dictators. One famous example took place in Guatemala in 1954, when the CIA ousted leftist president Jacobo Arbenz from power for threatening to nationalize some lands held by the United Fruit Company, which was owned by Americans.
    Which was a good thing. These 'nationalization programs' only went to finance those in power.
    The CIA would later attempt to assassinate Cuban communist leader Fidel Castro in addition to mounting the infamous Bay of Pigs invasion.
    Yes, Kennedy botched the Pay of Pigs and that kept the Castro brothers in power for several more decades while the Cuban people suffered.
    There are many more examples, too numerous to list here. CIA involvement in Latin America facilitated the overthrow of many a Latin American democratically elected government in favor of dictatorship. This gave rise to men like Chavez, Correa, Morales and Mujica.
    No, what gave rise to them was the fascination with Communism, where one man could dictate over an entire nation while claiming he was only doing it for justice for the people. And the Left supported these despots, and still do.
    And there are too numerous to mention here examples of US foreign policy and the use of Americas big stick, to enforce the interests of big business, such as the Guatemala/United Fruit example above!!
    Yes, yes, just like it was "All About Oil" from the uneducated leftists. Later they figured Latin America was "All About Fruit'.

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