Page 27 of 29 FirstFirst ... 172526272829 LastLast
Results 261 to 270 of 283

Thread: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

  1. #261
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    3,335
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I don't believe that SRS in itself specifically has been successful in ridding a person of the dysphoria to the extent that they are not dysphoric to the point of committing suicide anymore. I say that because this condition is as old as humanity. It's just that older cultures had a way of accommodating people such that they could comfortably live their lives. Can you provide cases that demonstrate that a person was so dysphoric, even after other options were exhausted, that SRS solved the problem?

    Actually people get facial reconstruction done as part of their treatment for their dysphoric condition because they say it helps them to project the image of the gender that they feel more comfortable identifying with. People respond to them more naturally as a part of their target gender, thus giving them reinforcement in their self esteem related to their target gender.
    I dont have the links but the percentage of people who are satisfied with SRS is like 95% or something close to that.

    Your right some people get FFS in order to feminize their face. Slightly different from what you were talking about before though.

    Edit: Just went back and looked at another thread thats going on and found CCs (who is a psychotherapist that works with transssexuals) quote stating that 95% of transsexuals who go through SRS are psychologically symptom free. If you want I can link you to that post or try and see if he has a source on hand.
    Last edited by Omgitsme; 06-01-14 at 07:03 PM.

  2. #262
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    I dont have the links but the percentage of people who are satisfied with SRS is like 95% or something close to that.

    Your right some people get FFS in order to feminize their face. Slightly different from what you were talking about before though.

    Edit: Just went back and looked at another thread thats going on and found CCs (who is a psychotherapist that works with transssexuals) quote stating that 95% of transsexuals who go through SRS are psychologically symptom free. If you want I can link you to that post or try and see if he has a source on hand.
    What you have provided is evidence that persons who have had SRS are satisfied and/or symptom free of the negative effects of the dysphoria, not evidence that it was necessary to relieve the negative effects. Not only that, but let's suppose that is the case, although I'm not depressed, I would be very happy if the government gave me some money to expand my business, or even something as simple as replacing the alternator on my car. While we are at it, I need some plumbing repairs done on my house, they could redo my bathroom while they are at it. I'm sure I would be in a better mood as a result.

  3. #263
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    3,335
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    What you have provided is evidence that persons who have had SRS are satisfied and/or symptom free of the negative effects of the dysphoria, not evidence that it was necessary to relieve the negative effects. Not only that, but let's suppose that is the case, although I'm not depressed, I would be very happy if the government gave me some money to expand my business, or even something as simple as replacing the alternator on my car. While we are at it, I need some plumbing repairs done on my house, they could redo my bathroom while they are at it. I'm sure I would be in a better mood as a result.
    Well knowing we dont know of any other way to treat dysphoria I would say its necessary to relieve the effects of dysphoria.

    The bolded examples are not treatments for a disorder like SRS is for gender dysphoria so I fail to see how that is comparable to what we are talking about.

  4. #264
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    Well knowing we dont know of any other way to treat dysphoria I would say its necessary to relieve the effects of dysphoria.

    The bolded examples are not treatments for a disorder like SRS is for gender dysphoria so I fail to see how that is comparable to what we are talking about.
    SRS is not the only way to treat gender dysphoria, and many transgendered persons don't get SRS at all. Not only that but the fact that this phenomenon has been around for thousands of years demonstrates it's not necessary for affected persons to have to keep them from committing suicide. What we should do for transgendered people is to make sure that they have equal rights and that they are protected from discrimination in the workplace. As far as prisoners go, IF hormones are no more dangerous or expensive that other types of drugs that we currently provide, then it's ok. We should also segregate such prisoners and treat them as if they were a member of their target gender. People in the prison system should have the opportunity to be healthy physically and mentally. However, while SRS may be helpful, it's far too expensive relative to it's usefulness in facilitating tax payer funded mental health. If that's something prisoners want, they should pay for it themselves. Not only that, but if it's something that they personally feel is so necessary to their well being, they should not do the things that get one incarcerated in the first place, work diligently and save for it.

  5. #265
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    3,335
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    SRS is not the only way to treat gender dysphoria, and many transgendered persons don't get SRS at all. Not only that but the fact that this phenomenon has been around for thousands of years demonstrates it's not necessary for affected persons to have to keep them from committing suicide. What we should do for transgendered people is to make sure that they have equal rights and that they are protected from discrimination in the workplace. As far as prisoners go, IF hormones are no more dangerous or expensive that other types of drugs that we currently provide, then it's ok. We should also segregate such prisoners and treat them as if they were a member of their target gender. People in the prison system should have the opportunity to be healthy physically and mentally. However, while SRS may be helpful, it's far too expensive relative to it's usefulness in facilitating tax payer funded mental health. If that's something prisoners want, they should pay for it themselves. Not only that, but if it's something that they personally feel is so necessary to their well being, they should not do the things that get one incarcerated in the first place, work diligently and save for it.
    Ive already said that SRS is not the only way to treat gender dysphoria. Hormones and transitioning ya know. But if that doesnt work and the dysphoria is still there then the only thing left is SRS. That is when its necessary to relieve the effects of dysphoria.

    So what if transsexuals have existed for thousands of years? How does that mean SRS is not necessary for some individuals?

    While equal rights and protection from discrimination can cut down on the suicide rate a bit it still wont help with dysphoria. The attempted suicide rate for transsexuals didnt get to 42% just because discrimination.

    Even if hormones were more dangerous and more expensive its still something we should provide. But they arnt that dangerous nor are they that expensive.

    And the idea that we should withhold necessary procedures for a persons mental health due to them being in jail isnt an idea I can get behind.
    Last edited by Omgitsme; 06-03-14 at 01:24 AM.

  6. #266
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    Ive already said that SRS is not the only way to treat gender dysphoria. Hormones and transitioning ya know. But if that doesnt work and the dysphoria is still there then the only thing left is SRS. That is when its necessary to relieve the effects of dysphoria.

    So what if transsexuals have existed for thousands of years? How does that mean SRS is not necessary for some individuals?

    While equal rights and protection from discrimination can cut down on the suicide rate a bit it still wont help with dysphoria. The attempted suicide rate for transsexuals didnt get to 42% just because discrimination.

    Even if hormones were more dangerous and more expensive its still something we should provide. But they arnt that dangerous nor are they that expensive.

    And the idea that we should withhold necessary procedures for a persons mental health due to them being in jail isnt an idea I can get behind.
    Many people get depressed and commit suicide because they do not have enough money. Should we give all such persons $25,000 to treat their depression?

  7. #267
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,306

    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I said I was trying to think it out. That's the way I do things. I try to look at it as many ways as possible. It depends on the antidepressant. According to this, some run more than $1000 a month. My understanding is that different ones are effective on different people. Correct my if I'm wrong. So let's suppose for the sake of argument that the hormones were cheaper. Would your position still be the same?



    Antidepressants - Consumer Reports Health
    So the presumption is that the $1000/month Rx will be prescribed?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  8. #268
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So the presumption is that the $1000/month Rx will be prescribed?
    That's not what I said. I clearly stated the presumption. Read carefully.

  9. #269
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    3,335
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Many people get depressed and commit suicide because they do not have enough money. Should we give all such persons $25,000 to treat their depression?
    .....

  10. #270
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    10-30-14 @ 12:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,908

    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Defense officials say the Pentagon is trying to transfer convicted national security leaker Pvt. Chelsea Manning to a civilian prison so that she can get treatment for her gender disorder.

    Read more here: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment




    Eventually this person will be freed from prison and will have to be re-integrated into society.

    My question is: how much (If anything.) do the rest of us owe this person? The treatment that this person will require will be pretty expensive, I'm sure.

    Who is going to pay those bills? Who should pay those bills?

    Any ideas?
    First of all this person is a HE not a SHE and HIS name is Daniel NOT Chelsea.

    Second - the taxpayers shouldn't be paying for a "sex change" operation. Manning is certainly one confused individual, however there is nothing wrong with him physically.

    Third - The notion that this is even being debated shows how screwed our society really is.

    What are we going to do next? give prisoners cosmetic surgeries? give female prisoners breast implants??

    Men are men and woman are woman - you can not be born a man and then insist you're a woman - that is called mental illness not a biological mistake, and any psychologist who actually believes that a man/woman believes they're the opposite sex has a mental illness themselves and shouldn't be practicing medicine.

Page 27 of 29 FirstFirst ... 172526272829 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •