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Thread: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Then, that's a reason not to provide them, at least not with government funds.
    Every medication has risks. As long as the patient is aware of the risks and that medication solves the issue at hand then why not?

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    Every medication has risks. As long as the patient is aware of the risks and that medication solves the issue at hand then why not?
    If would hope that medication for psychological needs do not have a risk of cancer. I think that type of thing should be avoided, even for private use. I surely don't think public money should be used for such drugs, unless they were absolutely necessary.

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    If would hope that medication for psychological needs do not have a risk of cancer. I think that type of thing should be avoided, even for private use. I surely don't think public money should be used for such drugs, unless they were absolutely necessary.
    Its necessary for the treatment of gender dysphoria. And im not even sure how much of an increase of cancer it really is. And you should take a look at some of the possible side effects for antidepressants. Those put you at an increased risk of blood clots and stomach bleeding as well as a possible increase in the risk of suicidal behavior. As I said every medication comes with its risks so you might as well go with the one that actually fixes the problem at hand.

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    Its necessary for the treatment of gender dysphoria. And im not even sure how much of an increase of cancer it really is. And you should take a look at some of the possible side effects for antidepressants. Those put you at an increased risk of blood clots and stomach bleeding as well as a possible increase in the risk of suicidal behavior. As I said every medication comes with its risks so you might as well go with the one that actually fixes the problem at hand.
    The thing is this, I don't think that it's a good idea for anyone to put any type of substance in their body that carries a substantial increase in the chance that they will get a disease. Me personally, I don't do it. It has been a while since I have taken any type of prescription drugs. When I get sick, I take some ginger tea, mixed with honey. So my opinion is that if we are giving people things, for whatever reason short of saving their life or keeping them from getting a disease, that substantially increase their risk of getting disease, we should not do that. That's my personal opinion. I think part of the problem with the transgender issue is the negative reactions that transgendered people face from society. That is very unfortunate, because it is indeed a mental state that they don't have a substantial amount of control over, in many instances. With that in mind, I think that what should be offered, in the case of male to female prisoners, is the option of castration. I say that because I think the discomfort they experience is due to the presence of a more or less female mind in a body that is producing testosterone. Castration might relieve some of that discomfort. That, and I think the need to be kept segregated from the general prison population, if they are in male prisons. That's my opinion. How do you feel about that?

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The thing is this, I don't think that it's a good idea for anyone to put any type of substance in their body that carries a substantial increase in the chance that they will get a disease. Me personally, I don't do it. It has been a while since I have taken any type of prescription drugs. When I get sick, I take some ginger tea, mixed with honey. So my opinion is that if we are giving people things, for whatever reason short of saving their life or keeping them from getting a disease, that substantially increase their risk of getting disease, we should not do that. That's my personal opinion. I think part of the problem with the transgender issue is the negative reactions that transgendered people face from society. That is very unfortunate, because it is indeed a mental state that they don't have a substantial amount of control over, in many instances. With that in mind, I think that what should be offered, in the case of male to female prisoners, is the option of castration. I say that because I think the discomfort they experience is due to the presence of a more or less female mind in a body that is producing testosterone. Castration might relieve some of that discomfort. That, and I think the need to be kept segregated from the general prison population, if they are in male prisons. That's my opinion. How do you feel about that?
    I think thats a bad idea. First of all castration isnt really going to do all that much for gender dysphoria and second of all a penis is needed to create a vagina. And its all fine and dandy that you dont take medication that gives you an increased risk of a disease but some people find the effects of medications to be worth the increased chance of some other type of disease.

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    I think thats a bad idea. First of all castration isnt really going to do all that much for gender dysphoria and second of all a penis is needed to create a vagina. And its all fine and dandy that you dont take medication that gives you an increased risk of a disease but some people find the effects of medications to be worth the increased chance of some other type of disease.
    The problem can only be thoroughly solved by giving the person a genuine body of the gender they desire. SRS attempts to do that, but it does have it's limitations. That's why people have to take hormones, even after SRS.

    But that aside, I'm trying to think of things that the government could provide to people at no direct cost to them. So let me frame it like this. Would you be willing to have your money taken from you by force so that someone, that you did not know or might not even like, could have SRS?

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The problem can only be thoroughly solved by giving the person a genuine body of the gender they desire. SRS attempts to do that, but it does have it's limitations. That's why people have to take hormones, even after SRS.

    But that aside, I'm trying to think of things that the government could provide to people at no direct cost to them. So let me frame it like this. Would you be willing to have your money taken from you by force so that someone, that you did not know or might not even like, could have SRS?
    The problem can be solved with just hormones or even just living as the gender you feel. Surgery is not always necessary. And even if it is just living as the gender you feel and hormones go a long way to helping with gender dysphoria.

    My money gets taken to fund things I dont like all the time. If SRS is determined to be medically necessary for an individual then I dont see why we should say no.

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    The problem can be solved with just hormones or even just living as the gender you feel. Surgery is not always necessary. And even if it is just living as the gender you feel and hormones go a long way to helping with gender dysphoria.

    My money gets taken to fund things I dont like all the time. If SRS is determined to be medically necessary for an individual then I dont see why we should say no.
    SRS is expensive and it's not a life saving surgery. Because of that, if someone wants it, they should pay for it themselves. Should we start paying for liposuction for inmates, facelifts, tummy tucks, buttock augmentation, facial reconstruction, botox, and all the rest? Not only that, but I'm not so sure what you mean by medically necessary. On the one hand you say either being on hormones OR living as the chosen gender will solve the problem. On the other hand you say it might be medically necessary.

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    SRS is expensive and it's not a life saving surgery. Because of that, if someone wants it, they should pay for it themselves. Should we start paying for liposuction for inmates, facelifts, tummy tucks, buttock augmentation, facial reconstruction, botox, and all the rest? Not only that, but I'm not so sure what you mean by medically necessary. On the one hand you say either being on hormones OR living as the chosen gender will solve the problem. On the other hand you say it might be medically necessary.
    Gender dysphoria can easily lead to suicide. So if the individual in question is still dysphoric after hormones and living as the gender they see themselves as and is showing suicidal behaviors then yeah it may be medically necessary.

    Facelifts and all that are never medically necessary so its pointless to try and compare the two.

    What I said is the problem CAN be solved by hormones or living as their chosen gender as in the problem is sometimes solved by hormones and living as their chosen gender but not always.

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    Gender dysphoria can easily lead to suicide. So if the individual in question is still dysphoric after hormones and living as the gender they see themselves as and is showing suicidal behaviors then yeah it may be medically necessary.

    Facelifts and all that are never medically necessary so its pointless to try and compare the two.

    What I said is the problem CAN be solved by hormones or living as their chosen gender as in the problem is sometimes solved by hormones and living as their chosen gender but not always.
    I don't believe that SRS in itself specifically has been successful in ridding a person of the dysphoria to the extent that they are not dysphoric to the point of committing suicide anymore. I say that because this condition is as old as humanity. It's just that older cultures had a way of accommodating people such that they could comfortably live their lives. Can you provide cases that demonstrate that a person was so dysphoric, even after other options were exhausted, that SRS solved the problem?

    Actually people get facial reconstruction done as part of their treatment for their dysphoric condition because they say it helps them to project the image of the gender that they feel more comfortable identifying with. People respond to them more naturally as a part of their target gender, thus giving them reinforcement in their self esteem related to their target gender.

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