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Thread: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I think even though we are both liberals, we have vastly different definitions of "medical treatment" and "basic human rights". I'm all for sexual reassignment surgery being performed on inmates, as long as they themselves pay for it. That's a world away from something like life saving heart surgery or AIDS/Cancer treatments.
    That's about where I CURRENTLY stand. But I really don't know what to think about hormones. What do you think about that?

    That stuff is very complicated.

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That's about where I CURRENTLY stand. But I really don't know what to think about hormones. What do you think about that?

    That stuff is very complicated.
    I think if there is a psychiatric evaluation and it is determined that the hormones would benefit the inmate's overall behavior, I'd still think the inmate should pay for it. Transgenderism isn't a condition that is life threatening if the inmate is not afforded treatment. I don't believe tax payers should be forced to pay for it. Let the prisons who offer such surgeries come up with payment plans for the inmates. Inmates could be told that in order to get the surgery, they must work certain jobs or agree to rehabilitation programs before the treatment.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I think if there is a psychiatric evaluation and it is determined that the hormones would benefit the inmate's overall behavior, I'd still think the inmate should pay for it. Transgenderism isn't a condition that is life threatening if the inmate is not afforded treatment. I don't believe tax payers should be forced to pay for it. Let the prisons who offer such surgeries come up with payment plans for the inmates. Inmates could be told that in order to get the surgery, they must work certain jobs or agree to rehabilitation programs before the treatment.
    That sounds reasonable, and I'm surely convinced about the surgery. But let's suppose that hormones are actually essential for keeping the person out of a state of severe depression. Why would that be any different that any other drug that's used to treat depression. If anti-depressants are offered free of charge, why not hormones? Assuming of course, that they were actually essential for keeping the person from slipping into a depressed state.

    Come to think of it, what do they do with transgendered females in the prison system? Do they sent them to a female prison, or do they keep them segregated from the male population in prisons?

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That sounds reasonable, and I'm surely convinced about the surgery. But let's suppose that hormones are actually essential for keeping the person out of a state of severe depression. Why would that be any different that any other drug that's used to treat depression. If anti-depressants are offered free of charge, why not hormones? Assuming of course, that they were actually essential for keeping the person from slipping into a depressed state.

    Come to think of it, what do they do with transgendered females in the prison system? Do they sent them to a female prison, or do they keep them segregated from the male population in prisons?
    If the problem is the inmate becoming depressed from not getting his way, fine, give him antidepressants. No need to add another list of things provided at tax payer expense.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If the problem is the inmate becoming depressed from not getting his way, fine, give him antidepressants. No need to add another list of things provided at tax payer expense.
    I'm thinking this out here so bear with me. What if the hormones were more effective and cheaper?

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I'm thinking this out here so bear with me. What if the hormones were more effective and cheaper?
    Q. If I decide to start on a bioidentical hormone therapy program, how much will it cost? - Q. If I decide to start on a bioidentical hormone therapy program, how much will it cost?

    Potential patients often ask, “How much does bioidentical hormone therapy cost?” The simple answer is approximately $200 per month or $2400 per year.
    Cost of antidepressants? As low as $28 a month. You're trying to make an argument that simply isn't there. If the problem is depression, give them antidepressants. They're cheaper and you'd have a hard time proving they're not effective.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Q. If I decide to start on a bioidentical hormone therapy program, how much will it cost? - Q. If I decide to start on a bioidentical hormone therapy program, how much will it cost?

    Cost of antidepressants? As low as $28 a month. You're trying to make an argument that simply isn't there. If the problem is depression, give them antidepressants. They're cheaper and you'd have a hard time proving they're not effective.
    I said I was trying to think it out. That's the way I do things. I try to look at it as many ways as possible. It depends on the antidepressant. According to this, some run more than $1000 a month. My understanding is that different ones are effective on different people. Correct my if I'm wrong. So let's suppose for the sake of argument that the hormones were cheaper. Would your position still be the same?

    Retail prices for commonly prescribed antidepressants range from about $21 a month, and sometimes even less, to more than $1,000 a month.
    Antidepressants - Consumer Reports Health

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I said I was trying to think it out. That's the way I do things. I try to look at it as many ways as possible. It depends on the antidepressant. According to this, some run more than $1000 a month. My understanding is that different ones are effective on different people. Correct my if I'm wrong. So let's suppose for the sake of argument that the hormones were cheaper. Would your position still be the same?
    No. Absolutely not. A need for a sex change is not a life threatening condition nor is it necessary for the survival of the inmate.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. Absolutely not. A need for a sex change is not a life threatening condition nor is it necessary for the survival of the inmate.
    So your objection is on the grounds that the nature of the psychological condition does not warrant state supported treatment.

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    Re: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    So your objection is on the grounds that the nature of the psychological condition does not warrant state supported treatment.
    It's been pretty obvious from my first post on this thread.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-31-14 at 07:40 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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