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Thread: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Either way, equal protection means just that, equal protection. The States cannot deny a Right based on gender anymore than they can deny a Right based on orientation.
    It is a somewhat important distinction since orientation would probably fall under Rational Basis Review, while gender falls under Intermediate Scrutiny.
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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Well said.

    And, I see you're from the big city. I'm from Gaston County. The large metropolis of Dallas, NC - well, actually in the country about 5 miles outside of town.
    My father lives in Gaston County. In fact, most of my father's family is from Gaston County. I was raised mainly in Cleveland County but spent part of my early childhood in a small town in Gaston.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Sexuality issues now equate socialism? You do realize socialism is an economic policy right?
    Someone missed the point of my point.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if you read it said the congress decides what a republican form is.......that is false the constitution structure decides what a republican form is...


    States were already direct voting for senators before the 17th amendment is ever created....that is unconstitutional...as is direct democrracy in america
    Nowhere in the Constitution does it actually state exactly what a republic is or should be, nor that the people cannot, in a state, vote directly for laws. The definition of a republic that we generally think of the US as is actually from the Federalist Papers, not the Constitution itself. So there is nothing unconstitutional about referendums within states (not sure about federal government though). In order for something to be unconstitutional, then it must go against what the actual Constitution says. The main thing protecting our rights from the tyranny of the majority within our republican form of government is our constitutions, especially the US Constitution.

    Now, personally I am against referendums and ballot initiatives. It think people become sheep in large voting numbers, willing to believe so many things, especially out of fear or anger. And I believe people, as a large group, are less likely to understand the way the law and government works than most elected politicians. Plus, politicians are going to be more cautious in their voting than the actual people. This goes into several things including thinking about their future and how future voters will vote on an issue (rather than being something that is only thought of for the moment, as is the case with voters voting on initiatives), where the money will come from for any monetary elements that go with the thing being voted on, and the likelihood of the law being challenged and therefore costing the government more money to defend, to name a few.

    I also believe that it is just as wrong for people to insist that they have the right to vote on an issue directly as it is for others to claim it is unconstitutional for them to do so. I would absolutely support an actual Amendment to the US Constitution that banned voter initiatives, but I doubt this is going to happen.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Oh i forgot in this case you think the "left" is the only people who use referendums. Tell me again about Prop 13 in Cali...
    no i didn't say that, i said you and the left...i have never not know someone from the left who did not like democracy.

    there are plenty of people on the right who like democracy, and plenty that dont

    people who like democracy are either ignorant of what it really is, or are socialist.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Nowhere in the Constitution does it actually state exactly what a republic is or should be, nor that the people cannot, in a state, vote directly for laws. The definition of a republic that we generally think of the US as is actually from the Federalist Papers, not the Constitution itself. So there is nothing unconstitutional about referendums within states (not sure about federal government though). In order for something to be unconstitutional, then it must go against what the actual Constitution says. The main thing protecting our rights from the tyranny of the majority within our republican form of government is our constitutions, especially the US Constitution.

    Now, personally I am against referendums and ballot initiatives. It think people become sheep in large voting numbers, willing to believe so many things, especially out of fear or anger. And I believe people, as a large group, are less likely to understand the way the law and government works than most elected politicians. Plus, politicians are going to be more cautious in their voting than the actual people. This goes into several things including thinking about their future and how future voters will vote on an issue (rather than being something that is only thought of for the moment, as is the case with voters voting on initiatives), where the money will come from for any monetary elements that go with the thing being voted on, and the likelihood of the law being challenged and therefore costing the government more money to defend, to name a few.

    I also believe that it is just as wrong for people to insist that they have the right to vote on an issue directly as it is for others to claim it is unconstitutional for them to do so. I would absolutely support an actual Amendment to the US Constitution that banned voter initiatives, but I doubt this is going to happen.
    are you kidding, the Constitution has a guarantee in it that states , the federal government and the states are to be republican, and a republican form is the structure of government, which can be seen in the Constitution.

    referendum is DIRECT DEMOCRACY....are you going to me tell the founders wanted states run by direct democracy?.....

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    are you kidding, the Constitution has a guarantee in it that states , the federal government and the states are to be republican, and a republican form is the structure of government, which can be seen in the Constitution.

    referendum is DIRECT DEMOCRACY....are you going to me tell the founders wanted states run by direct democracy?.....
    The states are not being run by referendum though. That is the difference. They are run via a constitution and a legislature/governor. Referendums can be used to put laws into place, but they are not the norm, and they can't be used to actually run the state governments either.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    A state constitutional amendment can not infringe on the rights of Americans. State rights for state issues.
    you would be correct IF we were operating on the constitution and how it was meant to be used.

    because the USSC has deemed the federal bills of rights, as the supreme rights document.....state constitutions concerning rights....have turned into second bananas.

    how many people do you know who say....."my right to speech has been violated by my state", and then seek state resolution to that violation...NO they run directly to the 1st amendment.

    states are suppose to be a republican form of government, ...so that direct democracy can NEVER be used.......as a majority vote on people rights..........that is why the founders did not create a democracy...but a republic...of divided power
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-14-14 at 10:59 AM.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The states are not being run by referendum though. That is the difference. They are run via a constitution and a legislature/governor. Referendums can be used to put laws into place, but they are not the norm, and they can't be used to actually run the state governments either.
    that was a sight error in my post, ..did not mean to say run, as in the big picture, ..but run as in instituting a law...i said in republican forms....you cannot have referendums...that is direct democracy, giving the people power to vote directly on issues,. like the Athens did...the founders hate that form of government and constructed the constitution [federalism] to prevent that...hence the guarantee.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-14-14 at 11:03 AM.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you would be correct IF we were operating on the constitution and how it was meant to be used.

    because the USSC has deemed the federal bills of rights, as the supreme rights document.....state constitution concerning rights....have turned into second bananas.

    how many people do you know who say.....my right to speech has been violated by my state, and then seek state resolution to that violation...NO they run directly to he 1st amendment.

    states are suppose to be a republican form of government, ...so that direct democracy can NEVER be used.......as a majority vote ,on people rights..........that is why the founders did not create a democracy...but a republic...of divided power
    Actually, states see free speech cases too. They just aren't talked about as much as those that go the federal route.

    In fact, it was state court decisions on same sex marriage violating state constitutions that led to at least some of the state amendments stating marriage is between a man and a woman only. Baehr v Miike, a state of Hawaii supreme court decision that stated not issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples was discriminatory, was actually one of the main catalysts for DOMA. It was a California state court decision that led to Prop 8.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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