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Thread: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

  1. #161
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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    It's really easy. Do those other than religiously ordained officiants (those authorized to sign a marriage license for states) get to decide now who they will and won't sign a marriage certificate for? If so, then there is no difference here. They choose to get authorized by the state to sign marriage certificates in a way that is non-religious (since, if it were religious, they would be ordained, not secular officiants of some sort). They cannot claim a religious exemption to performing a civil act in a secular capacity. Just as a civil servant working in a public office cannot refuse to give or file paperwork pertaining to same sex couples or interracial couples or interfaith couples. It doesn't matter if it is a marriage license or adoption records.

    So far, all you've shown is that you have a particular political opinion on how you believe the Constitution should be interpreted. That is not in legal reality how it is interpreted.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It's really easy. Do those other than religiously ordained officiants (those authorized to sign a marriage license for states) get to decide now who they will and won't sign a marriage certificate for? If so, then there is no difference here. They choose to get authorized by the state to sign marriage certificates in a way that is non-religious (since, if it were religious, they would be ordained, not secular officiants of some sort). They cannot claim a religious exemption to performing a civil act in a secular capacity. Just as a civil servant working in a public office cannot refuse to give or file paperwork pertaining to same sex couples or interracial couples or interfaith couples. It doesn't matter if it is a marriage license or adoption records.

    So far, all you've shown is that you have a particular political opinion on how you believe the Constitution should be interpreted. That is not in legal reality how it is interpreted.
    lets refresh my position....

    you as a person don't get a license from another person who performs a ceremony.

    you get it from the state, you apply for it.

    if i as a person become an ordained minster, and you can without ever setting a foot in a church, ....i can perform a ceremony.

    if i take my certificate from the church, which it gives me, and i setup a business and perform ceremonies, then it is possible for someone to sue me for not performing a marriage ceremony for them.

    civil ceremonies are performed by the state, and must be performed under equality under the law...because of constitutional law.

    however, an ordained minster who does make religious statements on paper to get his certificate, .....could .......be found outside of law by going into business.......which under business, i have right to commerce, association, and property.

    right to a marriage...would apply to a state.....not to a citizen or business.

    you can NEVER have a right to anything, and exercise it on another person using force.

    nothing can be a right, which lays a cost or burden on another citizen be it civil or natural.

  3. #163
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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    lets refresh my position....

    you as a person don't get a license from another person who performs a ceremony.

    you get it from the state, you apply for it.

    if i as a person become an ordained minster, and you can without ever setting a foot in a church, ....i can perform a ceremony.

    if i take my certificate from the church, which it gives me, and i setup a business and perform ceremonies, then it is possible for someone to sue me for not performing a marriage ceremony for them.

    civil ceremonies are performed by the state, and must be performed under equality under the law...because of constitutional law.

    however, an ordained minster who does make religious statements on paper to get his certificate, .....could .......be found outside of law by going into business.......which under business, i have right to commerce, association, and property.

    right to a marriage...would apply to a state.....not to a citizen or business.

    you can NEVER have a right to anything, and exercise it on another person using force.

    nothing can be a right, which lays a cost or burden on another citizen be it civil or natural.
    A person can bring a lawsuit against someone for pretty much anything. The chances of actually winning a lawsuit you bring against someone else though is dependent on what you are suing over. For refusing to perform a wedding ceremony, it is highly unlikely that anyone in the US would win such a lawsuit, unless it was actually being brought against someone who was employed by the state. Even then, we haven't seen such a lawsuit (not that I'm aware of) despite incidents where people have been turned away by someone employed by the state, rather than ordained by a church.

    You continue to think that what you believe about rights is how the law works. It isn't. And you cannot show any evidence that anyone, even those who have businesses set up to marry others, has been sued in the US for refusing to perform a wedding ceremony for any couple. Until that time, your fears of this situation are unfounded.

    It could happen, but it could happen now, without same sex marriage being legal so it doesn't matter if same sex couples can legally marry or not. And marriage has already been ruled as a right, long ago.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #164
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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    A person can bring a lawsuit against someone for pretty much anything. The chances of actually winning a lawsuit you bring against someone else though is dependent on what you are suing over. For refusing to perform a wedding ceremony, it is highly unlikely that anyone in the US would win such a lawsuit, unless it was actually being brought against someone who was employed by the state. Even then, we haven't seen such a lawsuit (not that I'm aware of) despite incidents where people have been turned away by someone employed by the state, rather than ordained by a church.

    You continue to think that what you believe about rights is how the law works. It isn't. And you cannot show any evidence that anyone, even those who have businesses set up to marry others, has been sued in the US for refusing to perform a wedding ceremony for any couple. Until that time, your fears of this situation are unfounded.

    It could happen, but it could happen now, without same sex marriage being legal so it doesn't matter if same sex couples can legally marry or not. And marriage has already been ruled as a right, long ago.
    true, you can sue anyone...does not mean it will go anywhere.

    rights....can you name a right you have...which makes other people do things for you or give you things?..........materials goods or services.

    you have rights, like anyone else....and government secures them.......from who?........they secure them from government and other people.........

    if government violates your rights, ......its a constitutional violation.

    if a person violates your rights.......ITS A CRIME!

    is it a crime if i refuse to serve you?.............NO! ..its not a crime.... and BECAUSE I AM NOT VIOLATING A RIGHT....you have no right to be served by me......because that would be a compulsion on me ...by you ,..........to give you a service....1 citizen cannot force another to give them something.

    you cannot exercise a right on me though force......you exercise your right ...ON GOVERNMENT...NOT OTHER PEOPLE.

    a citizen does not give another citizen rights , ..those do not come from MAN.......so why are you demanding that i give you a ......right of service?..........which does not even exist.

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