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Thread: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

  1. #121
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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    that is true...government recognizes the marriage...and they have to by law....14th

    but a citizen is not bound to the 14th to do anything for you.....

    using his rights/his liberty he excises his own decision whether he will do anything for you...that is what liberty means.
    Literally nobody in this country has ever been forced to officiate any marriage ceremony. Legalizing same sex marriage does not change this. (Public employees may be an exception, but they work for the government and therefore lack the right to make certain discriminations in regards to their duties)
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    yes i do, however when the people directly vote for laws by referendums, initiatives......that is what direct democracy is.

    if you vote for an official, and he votes for laws and does the bidding of the people, ..that is Representative democracy.
    I know. So whats your point? There are strict regulations in states when a referendum can be used. Both republicans and democrats use referendums. But what does this have to do with the current situation?


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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I know. So whats your point? There are strict regulations in states when a referendum can be used. Both republicans and democrats use referendums. But what does this have to do with the current situation?
    because according to constitutional law..."the guarantee" in the constitution" referendums direct democracy is illegal.

    you cannot use direct democracy of the people to vote on the rights of other people, ...that is majority rule!

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Literally nobody in this country has ever been forced to officiate any marriage ceremony. Legalizing same sex marriage does not change this. (Public employees may be an exception, but they work for the government and therefore lack the right to make certain discriminations in regards to their duties)
    ok...that is what i am saying......no one can ever be forced to preform a ceremony, or be part of a marriage by commerce acts...though civil rights.

    natural rights, civil rights, have no power to force another citizen to do things against their will...it only has the power to force government to do things.

    you cannot use a right, against a right!

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    because according to constitutional law..."the guarantee" in the constitution" referendums direct democracy is illegal.

    you cannot use direct democracy of the people to vote on the rights of other people, ...that is majority rule!
    Show me where in the Constitution of the united states where it says state governments can or cannot have referendums? Which article exactly?


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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Show me where in the Constitution of the united states where it says state governments can or cannot have referendums? Which article exactly?
    article 4 section 4 of the constitution states it is a guarantee, that all states and the federal government be republican forms of government.........direct democracy is not part of a republican form of government.

    the Athenians used direct democracy, the founders hated democracy, and created state and federal governments based on the roman republic ...not Athens.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    article 4 section 4 of the constitution states it is a guarantee, that all states and the federal government be republican forms of government.........direct democracy is not part of a republican form of government.

    the Athenians used direct democracy, the founders hated democracy, and created state and federal governments based on the roman republic ...not Athens.
    You can use forms of direct democracy and still be a republican form of government. The Roman Republic used some forms of direct democracy as well. They had forms of ways the citizens can directly veto laws. And also all states that use referendums do not use true forms of direct demoracy. There are steps that have to be taken. Be it a certain amount of legislators on your side, or a certain amount of citizens have to sign in favor of the referendum or a combination.


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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You can use forms of direct democracy and still be a republican form of government. The Roman Republic used some forms of direct democracy as well. They had forms of ways the citizens can directly veto laws. And also all states that use referendums do not use true forms of direct demoracy. There are steps that have to be taken. Be it a certain amount of legislators on your side, or a certain amount of citizens have to sign in favor of the referendum or a combination.
    how?..... democracy is a democratic form of government...not republican

    in republican forms of government it has only 1 single element of democracy in it, but it is outweighed by the other parts which are not democratic.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    ok...that is what i am saying......no one can ever be forced to preform a ceremony, or be part of a marriage by commerce acts...though civil rights.

    natural rights, civil rights, have no power to force another citizen to do things against their will...it only has the power to force government to do things.

    you cannot use a right, against a right!
    Marriage is a fundemental right.

    that means any infringement or challange of that right has to meet the standard of rational basis and strict scrutiny demanded by the due process clause and equal protection clause of the 14th amendment.
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    Re: Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban

    Other gay marriage news probably not deserving it's own thread: The Jusge for the Oregon case denied NOM's petition to intervene in the case. The result is that nobody is presenting a case for upholding the ban.

    Not terribly surprising given the precedent set in the Prop 8 SCOTUS decision.

    Federal judge denies national organization's attempt to intervene in Oregon's gay marriage case | OregonLive.com
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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