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Kidnapped Nigerian Girls

ttwtt78640 said:
I understand that, just as the US spent millions on the wild goose chase to find the Malaysian missing aircraft. I just find it rather odd that we must close parks and White House tours, and could not supply security forces in Benghazi, yet appear to have vast resources available to do all sorts of other things. I simply wanted to know where the funding and authority for these "good will" missions comes from.
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I agree. I imagine the funding comes from us. :) Maybe, because of the public outcry, Washington is feeling pressure too? I don't know the method to their madness.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I understand that, just as the US spent millions on the wild goose chase to find the Malaysian missing aircraft. I just find it rather odd that we must close parks and White House tours, and could not supply security forces in Benghazi, yet appear to have vast resources available to do all sorts of other things. I simply wanted to know where the funding and authority for these "good will" missions comes from.
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I'd like to add to my last post and say that I still can't help but want to help the girls. I'm surprised that more people don't REALLY want to help them. I've just seen some of the parents on TV, and it makes you feel terrible, and then to see the video of the girls. The fact that they are probably still alive too.
 
ChrisL said:
Oh please, now you're just being silly.
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:( I wish I was. An America that felt honestly compelled to see this kind of thing righted would (imo) be a better America, one I was prouder to be part of.




But I'm not being silly. :( I'm being honest.




But if I'm wrong - hey, where are the resources? Where is President #hashtag at on actually diverting the assets necessary to conduct counterinsurgency? Where is President Lead-From-Behind on combating the spread of Islamist Jihad, and defending it's victims?

Hint. He's on the golfcourse. Until something with a good media hook is trending, and then he puts out a token in order to check the "looks like I'm doing something" box. And the rest of America did the same. Feel Good About Myself? Check. Now back to whatever I was doing before all this - hey, did you hear about Rhianna making fun of that high schooler?
 
ChrisL said:
I'd like to add to my last post and say that I still can't help but want to help the girls.
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Fantastic. So you support boots on the ground with a task force dedicated to the multi-year task of grinding out Boko Haram and getting their victims back?
 
You know what grinds my gears? Famous actors standing and staring solemnly at the camera, holding a hand written sign that says, "Real men don't buy women"/"real men don't buy girls"....as if that will somehow affect any sort of change in the situation.

That isn't activism. That isn't taking a stand. That's expending the most minute amount of energy possible to paint yourself in a good light with the fan base and make it look like you care without actually doing anything of real significance.

The same goes for Michelle's little "bring back our girls" (or whatever) sign. Really?

You think some asshole sicko who is willing to kidnap young women is going to see your sad little face with your pathetic little sign trending on Instagram and all of a sudden have a change of heart?
 
tessaesque said:
You know what grinds my gears? Famous actors standing and staring solemnly at the camera, holding a hand written sign that says, "Real men don't buy women"/"real men don't buy girls"....as if that will somehow affect any sort of change in the situation.

That isn't activism. That isn't taking a stand. That's expending the most minute amount of energy possible to paint yourself in a good light with the fan base and make it look like you care without actually doing anything of real significance.

The same goes for Michelle's little "bring back our girls" (or whatever) sign. Really?

You think some asshole sicko who is willing to kidnap young women is going to see your sad little face with your pathetic little sign trending on Instagram and all of a sudden have a change of heart?
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Although I can agree that some people probably have their own selfish reasons for throwing their support behind such a cause, I think the point of this campaign is to garner support and to put pressure on the Nigerian government to start doing something about these things instead of just allowing them to happen.
 
cpwill said:
Fantastic. So you support boots on the ground with a task force dedicated to the multi-year task of grinding out Boko Haram and getting their victims back?
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I never said that. I'm tired of you making these bogus claims of things I never said.
 
ChrisL said:
I never said that. I'm tired of you making these bogus claims of things I never said.
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You said you wanted to help the girls. If you actually want to do that, that's how you go about doing it.

If you aren't willing to dedicate the resources necessary to actually help out the girls, then you don't want to help the girls - you want to be seen as wanting to help the girls or you want the positive self-regard that will come from telling yourself that you want to help the girls.
 
tessaesque said:
You know what grinds my gears? Famous actors standing and staring solemnly at the camera, holding a hand written sign that says, "Real men don't buy women"/"real men don't buy girls"....as if that will somehow affect any sort of change in the situation.

That isn't activism. That isn't taking a stand. That's expending the most minute amount of energy possible to paint yourself in a good light with the fan base and make it look like you care without actually doing anything of real significance.

The same goes for Michelle's little "bring back our girls" (or whatever) sign. Really?

You think some asshole sicko who is willing to kidnap young women is going to see your sad little face with your pathetic little sign trending on Instagram and all of a sudden have a change of heart?
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But, but, but they took a picture! Looking very concerned!
 
ChrisL said:
Although I can agree that some people probably have their own selfish reasons for throwing their support behind such a cause, I think the point of this campaign is to garner support and to put pressure on the Nigerian government to start doing something about these things instead of just allowing them to happen.
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The Nigerian government, at current, does not have the ability to fight and win against Boko Haram. It's not that they are not choosing to, it's that they lack (at current) the capacity. Our tweets are irrelevant to that.
 
cpwill said:
Oh. You think that Goodluck Jonathan cares about our tweets enough to turn his method of governance upside down and alienate the only power bases he has left in that country? That's nice. :)
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It's pressure from the international community. I suppose you'd rather just do nothing?
 
ChrisL said:
It's pressure from the international community. I suppose you'd rather just do nothing?
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No, I'd rather get a partial written out exception to the Leahy amendment which would allow us to spin up a training/advising with a CT component buried inside. The whole "boots on the ground" thing. Because "pressure from the international community" is meaningless when it isn't tied to anything. If you have no carrot, and you have no stick, you have no incentives. Tweets aren't "pressure", even tweets from First Ladies. They are just feel-good-ism, like signing a petition that will go nowhere. Sign the petition that says that you also think that Boko Haram is bad! Hooray, now you're an activist! You're "doing something"! Yay! :(
 
cpwill said:
No, I'd rather get a partial written out exception to the Leahy amendment which would allow us to spin up a training/advising with a CT component buried inside. The whole "boots on the ground" thing. Because "pressure from the international community" is meaningless when it isn't tied to anything. If you have no carrot, and you have no stick, you have no incentives. Tweets aren't "pressure", even tweets from First Ladies. They are just feel-good-ism, like signing a petition that will go nowhere. Sign the petition that says that you also think that Boko Haram is bad! Hooray, now you're an activist! You're "doing something"! Yay! :(
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Whether you want to admit it or not, putting pressure on the Nigerian government is doing something, and the Nigerian government IS doing something about it now, aren't they?
 
ChrisL said:
I know I saw another thread about this, but it is full of partisan bickering. I was hoping to start a thread that is about the Nigerian girls and the things that are being done to rescue them.

I think it's just terrible what happened here, and SOME of the girls are missing from the video. I wonder if they're still alive. Also, I can't imagine how frustrated their parents and loved ones must feel right about now. I hear that it's quite a large area where they could be keeping these girls, so the government would naturally have problems pinpointing their location. However, I don't think there is ANY excuse for allowing these types of groups to become SO powerful to begin with, and THAT is the part that really pisses me off!

Scared but alive: Video purports to show abducted Nigerian girls - CNN.com
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Typical Sharia..

I suppose we must tolerate this and the rest of their crazy **** because in "progressiveland" not all Muslims are evil.

Of course our government won't do anything about it - when they're the only ones that have the hardware to do anything about it.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Typical Sharia..

I suppose we must tolerate this and the rest of their crazy **** because in "progressiveland" not all Muslims are evil.

Of course our government won't do anything about it - when they're the only ones that have the hardware to do anything about it.
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I know we have to encourage these governments to do more. It's very difficult task when the government officials themselves are corrupt, take bribes and ignore law breakers. Educating the people, exposing them to the civilized world helps by changing attitudes and making it so that people can form their own opinions.

If you think about it, no matter what WE do to help, it will only be a temporary fix. We can't just stay there and babysit and protect people in other countries. That is the job of their own government.
 
ChrisL said:
I know we have to encourage these governments to do more. It's very difficult task when the government officials themselves are corrupt, take bribes and ignore law breakers. Educating the people, exposing them to the civilized world helps by changing attitudes and making it so that people can form their own opinions.

If you think about it, no matter what WE do to help, it will only be a temporary fix. We can't just stay there and babysit and protect people in other countries. That is the job of their own government.
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This is why we need to get these poor girls back then carpet bomb (with small nukes) all these terrorist camps, communes etc....

The only way to win this war against terrorism is to terrorize the terrorists.

Of course they will just all immigrate to England if we destroy their camps and England would be happy to take them...

Obviously our present government would be too chicken**** to even terrorize terrorists. No their idea of an offensive strike is to shoot at them from choppers or drones - as if that is sending a message.
 
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Mr.Nick said:
This is why we need to get these poor girls back then carpet bomb (with small nukes) all these terrorist camps, communes etc....

The only way to win this war against terrorism is to terrorize the terrorists.

Of course they will just all immigrate to England if we destroy their camps and England would be happy to take them...
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I don't know about that. Don't you think that would just keep on creating more terrorists and more enemies? This is why I think education is really the key. I know it takes longer than bombing them. :lol: But the only reason why these terrorist groups have so many followers is because those a good percentage of those followers are not educated and believe whatever their local imams tell them to believe. Sure, some of them are just nuts, but I believe that a vast majority of them are just uneducated and ignorant. I would like to see us and other countries do something that is going to work in the long term.
 
ChrisL said:
I don't know about that. Don't you think that would just keep on creating more terrorists and more enemies? This is why I think education is really the key. I know it takes longer than bombing them. :lol: But the only reason why these terrorist groups have so many followers is because those a good percentage of those followers are not educated and believe whatever their local imams tell them to believe. Sure, some of them are just nuts, but I believe that a vast majority of them are just uneducated and ignorant. I would like to see us and other countries do something that is going to work in the long term.
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IF we used our full might against these terrorists I think they would think twice before abducting young woman, hanging pregnant woman, hanging homosexuals and others accused of having sexual relations before marriage, stoning woman etc...

I understand war is usually strategic, however these evil ****s need to be taught a lesson - we bomb the **** out of every "cave" they reside in. All their camps, weapons stockpiles etc.... All the US does is bomb assets - when that does nothing more than piss people off because they believe the "evil" Jewish loving US has taken their power and water away - so it is quite easy to manipulate people in those positions to hate the United States - despite the fact we're not there to kill civilians (unlike any military in this world)....

As bad and barbaric as it sounds - war - or at least bombing the **** out of a nation ends war. If the US could cause enough destruction that could easily force terrorists to give up completely or surrender all together.

History has proven that when we show our military capabilities - surrender or at least communication follows that, and when that occurs mediation follows.
 
Mr.Nick said:
IF we used our full might against these terrorists I think they would think twice before abducting young woman, hanging pregnant woman, hanging homosexuals and others accused of having sexual relations before marriage, stoning woman etc...

I understand war is usually strategic, however these evil ****s need to be taught a lesson - we bomb the **** out of every "cave" they reside in. All their camps, weapons stockpiles etc.... All the US does is bomb assets - when that does nothing more than piss people off because they believe the "evil" Jewish loving US has taken their power and water away - so it is quite easy to manipulate people in those positions to hate the United States - despite the fact we're not there to kill civilians (unlike any military in this world)....

As bad and barbaric as it sounds - war - or at least bombing the **** out of a nation ends war. If the US could cause enough destruction that could easily force terrorists to give up completely or surrender all together.

History has proven that when we show our military capabilities - surrender or at least communication follows that, and when that occurs mediation follows.
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This is a pipe dream. Never will this happen. For one thing, the humanitarian outrage would be huge. For another thing, people in our country are just not interested enough in this to unleash ALL of our power on it. I think terrorism would have to become a much bigger problem HERE on our soil before the people would agree to such an approach.
 
ChrisL said:
Whether you want to admit it or not, putting pressure on the Nigerian government is doing something, and the Nigerian government IS doing something about it now, aren't they?
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A) sort of. They don't seem to be interested in buffing up the 7th Division, or reestablishing the Joint Task Force, or even that interested in really integrating US/UK assistance into operations. It seems that mostly what they are doing is trying to look like they are doing something.

B) But not from international tweet campaigns, but rather domestic pressure - Goodluck has an election next year, and his large failures (endemic corruption, a subsidy removal that was handled abysmally, loss of confidence of the rest of the government, a dropped amnesty program for Delta groups) leave him without much of a fudge factor. Even then it seems that if you protest him, his wife will have you arrested. Nice.
 
cpwill said:
A) sort of. They don't seem to be interested in buffing up the 7th Division, or reestablishing the Joint Task Force, or even that interested in really integrating US/UK assistance into operations. It seems that mostly what they are doing is trying to look like they are doing something.

B) But not from international tweet campaigns, but rather domestic pressure - Goodluck has an election next year, and his large failures (endemic corruption, a subsidy removal that was handled abysmally, loss of confidence of the rest of the government, a dropped amnesty program for Delta groups) leave him without much of a fudge factor. Even then it seems that if you protest him, his wife will have you arrested. Nice.
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No one is claiming the Nigerian government is going to change overnight. However, this campaign is not HARMING anyone, so I don't know why you take such an issue with it.
 
ChrisL said:
No one is claiming the Nigerian government is going to change overnight. However, this campaign is not HARMING anyone, so I don't know why you take such an issue with it.
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On the contrary. By taking the outrage that should be funneled towards action and diverting it instead to self-expression, it is harming someone - namely, the current and future victims of Boko Haram. By replacing action with expression we indicate that the subject is not our focus, but rather ourselves; self-congratulation as a basis for foreign policy.
 
cpwill said:
On the contrary. By taking the outrage that should be funneled towards action and diverting it instead to self-expression, it is harming someone - namely, the current and future victims of Boko Haram. By replacing action with expression we indicate that the subject is not our focus, but rather ourselves; self-congratulation as a basis for foreign policy.
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I don't see it that way. I see it as a way of rallying people around a cause, and there is nothing wrong with that, nor does it hurt anyone. You're claims are kind of stupid. To bring attention to a HUGE problem is not harming anyone at all.
 
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