Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

MildSteel said:

It wasn't known how CTE effected football players until recently.

It really was not known how repeated injuries less serious than concussions effected football players until recently.

Click to expand...

All I am saying that it seemed common knowledge to us high school kids back in the 80s. I guess we were ahead of our time.

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

tres borrachos said:

I agree with you on the context of the posts, but come on...what you just said is really silly.

Click to expand...

What wist43 said was far sillier.

jmotivator said:

All I am saying that it seemed common knowledge to us high school kids back in the 80s. I guess we were ahead of our time.

Click to expand...

How CTE effected football players was not common knowledge back in the 80s. In fact it wasn't until 1994 that the NFL started even seriously investigating it. And it is a fact that the NFL did not recognize it until 2010.

MildSteel said:

How CTE effected football players was not common knowledge back in the 80s. In fact it wasn't until 1994 that the NFL started even seriously investigating it. And it is a fact that the NFL did not recognize it until 2010.

Click to expand...

The NFL not studying it unto 1994 and not recognizing it until 2010 does not mean it wasn't widely assumed before that. Like I said, the NFL was trying to limit head trauma even back in the 80s and everyone I knew who played the game knew what was going on. The NFL has been late to the party on both counts mostly because it would be costly to admit something was wrong.

jmotivator said:

I find that hard to believe since back when I played football it was pretty easy to put two and two together.

Through the course of the games played and practices I would regularly get my bell rung, I had no delusion that the helmet was really saving me all that much, and I would look at professional boxers and know that there was a price to pay for repeatedly getting your head whacked.

Back in the 80s there was enough understanding of the risk of head trauma that there was an attempt to add padding to the outside of the helmet, but nobody used it because they looked ridiculous:

View attachment 67166385

I remember an interview from many years ago with a player (wish I could remember who) from the 40s-50s era of football. One of the subjects the interviewer brought up was the effects of repeated trauma to the brain for players, and whether he had any insight into that. I'll always remember his incredibly insightful response: "If you want to reduce head trauma in football go back to leather helmets". His reason was that the more advanced the head gear has gotten over the years the more willing players have been to take a blow to the head in exchange for a good tackle. If you go back to leather helmets you'd have no need for a anti-spearing rules. :lol:

Click to expand...

We'll just force the NFL to play touch football. :lamo

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

chromium said:

Since when is SEC defender of year a 7th round pick? Pretty sure cause he's gay. Should've been more like 5th round pick at least, or taken by a team that needs DLs more. So yeah it is news because most the NFL and especially their fans are too bigoted for a gay player and still stuck in 1950s, and yet Sam had the courage to come out before draft

Click to expand...

chromium said:

LOL yeah right, SEC defender of the year not picked at all. But then here's just another attempt to bash while pretending not to

Click to expand...

People are giving his SEC Co-Defender of the Year award far too much attention.

He was a very good college football player but we're talking about pro football now. There are plenty of great college football players who make terrible professional athletes. It's not even remotely uncommon. SEC Co-Defender of the Year? Have any of you looked at the awards Tim Tebow won while at college? His college career blows Sam's out of the water but he now co-hosts SEC Nation.

I don't doubt that Sam's a nice guy but he's not a NFL caliber player and we wouldn't be talking about him if not for his sexuality.

Back to the original topic, I don't think knowing what a guy likes to do with his genitals is really a reason to elevate his status among 200+ other players that worked equally hard to be drafted into the NFL.

There is no history of great gay football players that were denied access to the league due to their sexual preference. There is no gay equivalent to Satchel Paige or Josh Gibson languishing in a Gay League because they couldn't play in the majors. But maybe more importantly, Sam is not the equivalent of Jackie Robinson who was simply so amazingly talented that he shattered the separate but equal barrier in his sport. More surprising to the spectator was not the color of Robinson's skin, but the quality of his play. Sam is not likely to be that good. He will likely be a serviceable backup for a few years and then drift out of the league. He is likely never to have his play outshine his sexual preference.

American said:

We'll just force the NFL to play touch football. :lamo

Click to expand...

That is why I found the old player's comments so funny and insightful. If you took away the false sense of security of a big heavy helmet on the player's head they would simply opt to not lead with their head anymore naturally.

jmotivator said:

That is why I found the old player's comments so funny and insightful. If you took away the false sense of security of a big heavy helmet on the player's head they would simply opt to not lead with their head anymore naturally.

Click to expand...

Make them play with no helmets, like rugby.

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

24107 said:

If he would have just played football and kept his personal business to himself, he would have been drafted earlier and made millions.

Click to expand...

That's doubtful.

His personal life has gotten him all over the news but the fact of the matter is he was never expected to be an especially good professional athlete and his Combine was atrocious. We already knew he was undersized but the Combine told us he was slow and weak too. We knew he would almost certainly have to change positions in the pros but the Combine told us there might not even be a position for him.

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

Kobie said:

I posted this earlier in the thread. I think it needs to be restated.

Click to expand...

Originally Posted by Kobie
Homosexuality is more than just "his sex life." When people boil the whole concept of love, attraction and commitment down to "his sex life," then all it proves is they truly don't understand anything about the subject.

Click to expand...

Perhaps you need to repost this, which is another reason to scrutinize gays in the NFL:

CDC: Syphilis Resurgence Among Gay Men 'Major Public Health Concern'

Kobie said:

1. I fully agree that the Olympics goes way over the top with the personal interest stuff. I'm not sure how that's "feminizing" them, however.

2. The Sam thing is not remotely in that vein. It's a cultural milestone.

Click to expand...

2. I thought Elton John and the Village People were the "cultural" milestones.:roll:

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

tres borrachos said:

I agree with you on the context of the posts, but come on...what you just said is really silly.

Click to expand...

Actually no.I was using Wist's pretzel logic. He's the one that threw that bs out there. Why aren't you calling out wist for suggesting that homosexuality equals pedophilia?

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

wist43 said:

Yes, "the horror"... in front of MY CHILDREN - just as it would inappropriate for me to swear in front of your children..

Click to expand...

**** I do it all the time. I'd swear in front of yours too. Especially since I know how uptight you are about it.

It's about respect for others, and about decency in front of people who may be offended.

Click to expand...

No. It's about you and your ilk wanting to impose your beliefs on others. You're the type that get your bvds all bundled when a woman nurses her baby in public. Shall we all dress like you too?
.

I do not let my children watch violence or sex, and while it is my nature to cuss like a sailor, I refrain around my children for their sake - beyond that, I fully understand that it is inappropriate to behave in these ways in front of other people's children. You, and it would seem most homosexuals, seem to think you can do anything you want in front of someone elses child - so why wouldn't any logical person conclude that you will eventually say it is okay to moleste my child??

Click to expand...

Took you a while to get there, but thanks for clearing it all up. Homosexuality = Pedophilia. Isn't that special? Your deep rooted hatred comes out. You really should try to be a little less paranoid and check the facts. Facts are your friend.

Only you won't call it molesting, you will call it 'sexual enlightenment of youth'.

Click to expand...

You got it bad.

Like I said, I don't care who you hump - knock yourself out,

Click to expand...

Clearly you do.

but have the decency to keep it to yourself. There's a time and place for everything - you seem not to have learned how to behave in public, and with respect for others.

Click to expand...

I have zero respect for thumpers such as yourself that refuse to look at facts.

American said:

Make them play with no helmets, like rugby.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

Erod said:

Not a football fan I take it.

As an NFL prospect, Sam sucks. And he's bad at football, too.

Click to expand...

You're critiquing other peoples fandom nad then you say something like that. Funny, seems at least one teams scouts, multiple analysts, and others all disagere with you. As an NFL Prospect it's more accurate to say that Sam is pretty average. Measurables aren't the only thing that make a prospect. There was enough on the field tape of Sam to make a majority of draft evaluators rate him around a 5th round grade, enough for the Rams scouts to think he was worth a 7th rounder, and reportedly enough to make scouts from 4 teams think he was worthy of a UDFA pickup.

He's not "bad" at football. He's not a stand out, he doesn't have a high cieling, and he only went from average to "good" college player this year which gives some pause. Thus a 7th round pick. But unless you're suggesting most UDFA or 7th rounders are "bad" at football I'd say your evaluation is off base.

Navy Pride said:

This guy almost did not get drafted....He is not a good football player and really was only drafted because he is gay.

Click to expand...

Navy Pride said:

If he is so good why did he almost did no get drafted?

Click to expand...

With Erod questioning the other poster's football fandom I wonder if he'll say anything to these obviously uninformed comments.

Joe Jacoby, Arian Foster, London Fletcher, Wes Welker, Jeff Saturday, James Harrison, Antonio Gates, John Randle, and Bart Scott are a smattering of Undrafted Free Agents that have went on to be some of the best players in their positions if not the league.

Sometimes good players don't get drafted for a large variety of reasons. One of the best QB's of the past two decades was drafted in the 6th round (Brady), and another was undrafted (Kurt Warner).

There's no way of knowing or even suggesting he was drafted "only because he was gay". It's actually kind of ridiculous to suggest that an NFL team is going to use some of it's resources on someone simply to make some kind of social statement. It's far more reasonable to assume the Rams felt like he was worth a late round pick for potential depth. Which is in line with what scouts and analysts have suggested Sam was projected for, even prior to him coming out.

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

Top Cat said:

Actually no.I was using Wist's pretzel logic. He's the one that threw that bs out there. Why aren't you calling out wist for suggesting that homosexuality equals pedophilia?

Click to expand...

Because I don't even know who "wist" is.

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

wist43 said:

As I said, you guys seem to think it is okay to engage in homosexual acts in front of children - that's an assault on the innocence of those children. I don't care who you hump in your bedroom - knock yourself out; but don't expect that you can behave like that in public, when children are watching, and think you won't get push back.

Here you're getting push back b/c it was brought out into the public - and you think anyone who objects is a homophobe?? That's the slippery slope, and it is the twisted logic that is pushing the envelope ever further, until - yes, I fully expect it will be a crime to prevent some pervert from molesting my kid.

The slippery slope never stops being slippery.

Click to expand...

Last I watched the NFL, there wasn't a lot of sex on the field. Homo or hetero. I'd argue also that you really shouldn't have hetero sex in front of children either. Do you make it a habit of having your children watch you bang your wife?

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

Zyphlin said:

You're critiquing other peoples fandom nad then you say something like that. Funny, seems at least one teams scouts, multiple analysts, and others all disagere with you. As an NFL Prospect it's more accurate to say that Sam is pretty average. Measurables aren't the only thing that make a prospect. There was enough on the field tape of Sam to make a majority of draft evaluators rate him around a 5th round grade, enough for the Rams scouts to think he was worth a 7th rounder, and reportedly enough to make scouts from 4 teams think he was worthy of a UDFA pickup.

He's not "bad" at football. He's not a stand out, he doesn't have a high cieling, and he only went from average to "good" college player this year which gives some pause. Thus a 7th round pick. But unless you're suggesting most UDFA or 7th rounders are "bad" at football I'd say your evaluation is off base.





With Erod questioning the other poster's football fandom I wonder if he'll say anything to these obviously uninformed comments.

Joe Jacoby, Arian Foster, London Fletcher, Wes Welker, Jeff Saturday, James Harrison, Antonio Gates, John Randle, and Bart Scott are a smattering of Undrafted Free Agents that have went on to be some of the best players in their positions if not the league.

Sometimes good players don't get drafted for a large variety of reasons. One of the best QB's of the past two decades was drafted in the 6th round (Brady), and another was undrafted (Kurt Warner).

There's no way of knowing or even suggesting he was drafted "only because he was gay". It's actually kind of ridiculous to suggest that an NFL team is going to use some of it's resources on someone simply to make some kind of social statement. It's far more reasonable to assume the Rams felt like he was worth a late round pick for potential depth. Which is in line with what scouts and analysts have suggested Sam was projected for, even prior to him coming out.

Click to expand...

He was, as was pointed out, co-Defensive Player of the year in the SEC. You don't get that if you're not kind of good. Considering that his other "co-DPOY" was a top-20 pick...I'd say that getting that in the 7th round is good value if he can perform. And if he can't, it's not like you wasted a lot on him.

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

And in terms of gay players, one of the greatest Tight Ends in Redskins History (and really, if you check his stats, should be up there as one of the all time greats for the NFL) Jerry Smith was homosexual and was seemingly known amongst a number of the players.

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

Zyphlin said:

And in terms of gay players, one of the greatest Tight Ends in Redskins History (and really, if you check his stats, should be up there as one of the all time greats for the NFL) Jerry Smith was homosexual and was seemingly known amongst a number of the players.

Click to expand...

The only difference between Sam and the gay players who have already played (Kopay, Smith, Tuaolo...probably others) is that everybody knew he was gay before he came into the league.

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

tres borrachos said:

Because I don't even know who "wist" is.

Click to expand...

So let me see if I understand this? You see someone you don't know on this forum say something beyond stupid and you won't respond to them because you don't know them?

How exactly did you ever get started here?

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

Top Cat said:

So let me see if I understand this? You see someone you don't know on this forum say something beyond stupid and you won't respond to them because you don't know them?

How exactly did you ever get started here?

Click to expand...

Maybe you missed the part where I commented on the "other comments", which incuded many other comments, not just one poster's.

Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

rocket88 said:

He was, as was pointed out, co-Defensive Player of the year in the SEC. You don't get that if you're not kind of good. Considering that his other "co-DPOY" was a top-20 pick...I'd say that getting that in the 7th round is good value if he can perform. And if he can't, it's not like you wasted a lot on him.

Click to expand...

He generally was percieved to have a 5th round grade, and went in the mid 7th...so yeah, decent enough value. It was entirely reasonable though for his "Co-DPOY" to go in the top 20 as opposed to Sam going in the 7th.

Mosley had two consistent seasons as a MLB with over 100 tackles. His stats were also pretty consistent game in, game out. He was also a freshman all american, two time concensus all american, 2 time SEC first team, a Butkus award winner (best LB in NCAA), and a multi-time national champion. Mosley's measurables were pretty good for a MLB, both in terms of physical stature (height and weight prototypical for the position) and combine (like his 4.4 on his 40 time)

Sam's only year over 5 sacks as a pash rusher was his senior year. Additionally, 9 of his 11.5 sacks came in a 4 game stretch. In 8 games he didn't register a single sack. This was the only year he was any kind of first team/all american type player. His measurables were relatively poor, coming in a bit under sized for DE but not quick enough for rush OLB.

I'm not implying that you've suggested otherwise, but I didn't want some people to read that and take away the notion that somehow it was wrong that Sam went in the 7th and the SEC Co-DPOY went in the top 20. Sam in the 7th was decent value (one of MULTIPLE potential value picks, as is the case in every draft), but also likely relatively where he belonged if he was going to be drafted.