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Thread: Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

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    Re: Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Yes, I am aware of the syndrome, it's just foolish to use anecdotes to make a statistical point because you run the risk of the anecdote being a misdiagnosis and torpedoing your own argument.
    So you don't think that Michael Sam should be aware of the risks? Shouldn't others be aware of the risk as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    When you single out a player for concern you look like you don't actually care about anybody else.
    That's your opinion. I don't agree with you.

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    Re: Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    When I used to play football, there was no understanding of this

    I find that hard to believe since back when I played football it was pretty easy to put two and two together.

    Through the course of the games played and practices I would regularly get my bell rung, I had no delusion that the helmet was really saving me all that much, and I would look at professional boxers and know that there was a price to pay for repeatedly getting your head whacked.

    Back in the 80s there was enough understanding of the risk of head trauma that there was an attempt to add padding to the outside of the helmet, but nobody used it because they looked ridiculous:

    mark-kelsos-head-was-used-for-helmet-storage.jpg

    I remember an interview from many years ago with a player (wish I could remember who) from the 40s-50s era of football. One of the subjects the interviewer brought up was the effects of repeated trauma to the brain for players, and whether he had any insight into that. I'll always remember his incredibly insightful response: "If you want to reduce head trauma in football go back to leather helmets". His reason was that the more advanced the head gear has gotten over the years the more willing players have been to take a blow to the head in exchange for a good tackle. If you go back to leather helmets you'd have no need for a anti-spearing rules.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I find that hard to believe since back when I played football it was pretty easy to put two and two together.
    Whether you believe it or not, no one talked about it then. No one told me about it. My father coached football, although he wasn't doing when I played. My brother is a bit older than me and actually played pro football. We have talked about the issue many times, and we both are amazed at how nothing was known about it then.

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    Re: Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Whether you believe it or not, no one talked about it then. No one told me about it. My father coached football, although he wasn't doing when I played. My brother is a bit older than me and actually played pro football. We have talked about the issue many times, and we both are amazed at how nothing was known about it then.
    When would that be? I player football in the 80s and 30 years ago we all knew the perils head trauma. Concussions were a regular occurrence and it was at this time that the superstars of the golden age of boxing were all starting to show the wear of repeated head trauma. How was this a surprise to anybody?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    When would that be? I player football in the 80s and 30 years ago we all knew the perils head trauma. Concussions were a regular occurrence and it was at this time that the superstars of the golden age of boxing were all starting to show the wear of repeated head trauma. How was this a surprise to anybody?
    It wasn't known how CTE effected football players until recently.

    CTE was first noticed as a “peculiar condition” casually referred to as a “punch-drunk” syndrome in boxers and prizefighters before the 1930s. It was recognized as affecting individuals who took considerable blows to the head, but was believed to be confined to boxers and not other athletes. In 2008, the Sports Legacy Institute joined with the Boston University School of Medicine (BUSM) to form the Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy (CSTE). Brain Injury Research Institute (BIRI) also studies the impact of concussions.

    Between 2008 and 2010, the bodies of twelve former professional American football players underwent postmortem evaluations for CTE, and all of them showed evidence of the disease, indicating a conservatively estimated prevalence rate of 3.7% among professional football players if no other players who died during this period had CTE.[24]

    In 2002, Dr. Bennet Omalu, a forensic pathologist and neuropathologist in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania found CTE in the brains of Mike Webster, Terry Long, Andre Waters, Justin Strzelczyk and Tom McHale.[23] Omalu, in 2012 a medical examiner and associate adjunct professor in California, was a co-founder of BIRI[23] and reportedly in 2012 participated in the autopsy of Junior Seau.[22] Dr. Omalu's participation was halted during the autopsy after Junior Seau's son revoked previously provided oral permission after he received telephone calls from NFL management denouncing Dr. Omalu's professional ethics, qualifications, and motivation.

    As of December 2012, thirty-three former National Football League (NFL) players have been diagnosed post-mortem with CTE. Former Detroit Lions lineman and eight-time Pro Bowler Lou Creekmur,[25] former Houston Oilers and Miami Dolphins linebacker John Grimsley,[26] former Tampa Bay Buccaneers guard Tom McHale,[27] former Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Chris Henry,[28] and former Chicago Bears safety Dave Duerson,[29] have all been diagnosed post-mortem with CTE. Other football players diagnosed with CTE include former Buffalo Bills star running back Cookie Gilchrist[30] and Wally Hilgenberg.,[31] among others.

    An autopsy conducted in 2010 on the brain of Owen Thomas, a 21-year-old junior lineman at the University of Pennsylvania who committed suicide, showed early stages of CTE, making him the second youngest person to be diagnosed with the condition. Thomas was the second amateur football player diagnosed with CTE, after Mike Borich, who died at 42.[32] The doctors who performed the autopsy indicated that they found no causal connection between the nascent CTE and Thomas's suicide. There were no records of Thomas missing any playing time due to concussion, but as a player who played hard and "loved to hit people," Thomas may have played through concussions and received thousands of subconcussive impacts on the brain.[33]

    In October 2010, 17-year-old Nathan Stiles died hours after his high school homecoming football game, where he took a hit that would be the final straw in a series of subconcussive and concussive blows to the head for the highschooler. The CSTE diagnosed him with CTE, making him the youngest reported CTE case to date.[34]

    In July, 2011, Colt tight end John Mackey died after several years of deepening symptoms of frontotemporal dementia. BUSM was reported to be planning to examine his brain for signs of CTE.[35] The CSTE found CTE in his brain post-mortem.[36]

    In 2012, retired NFL player Junior Seau committed suicide with a gunshot wound to the chest.[37] There was speculation that he suffered brain damage due to CTE.[22][38][39][40][41] Seau's family donated his brain tissue to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke.[42] On January 10, 2013, the brain pathology report was revealed and Seau did have evidence of CTE.[43]

    On July 27, 2012, an autopsy report concluded that the former Atlanta Falcons safety Ray Easterling, who committed suicide in April 2012, had CTE.[44][45]

    The NFL has taken measures to help prevent CTE. As of July 2011, the NFL has changed its return-to-play rules.[citation needed] The number of contact practices has been reduced, based on the recent collective bargaining agreement.[46]

    In 2012, some four thousand former NFL players "joined civil lawsuits against the League, seeking damages over the League’s failure to protect players from concussions, according to Judy Battista of the [New York] Times".[47]

    On August 30, 2013, the NFL reached a $765 million settlement with the former NFL players over the head injuries.[48] The settlement created a $675 million compensation fund from which former NFL players can collect from depending on the extent of their conditions. Severe conditions such as Lou Gehrig's disease and postmortem diagnosed chronic traumatic encephalopathy would be entitled to payouts as high as $5 million.[48] From the remainder of the settlement, $75 million will be used for medical exams, and $10 million will be used for research and education.[48] However, in January, 2014, U.S. District Judge Anita B. Brody refused to accept the agreed settlement because "the money wouldn't adequately compensate the nearly 20,000 men not named in the suit".[49]

    Bernie Kosar, who sustained several concussions during his twelve-year NFL career and has shown symptoms of CTE, has submitted himself to an experimental treatment program led by Dr. Rick Sponaugle of Florida that has alleviated many of his symptoms. The program, the details of which are proprietary, involves increasing blood flow to damaged portions of the brain. He has spoken out in public about his successes with the treatment in the hopes that others who suffer from the disease can find relief and avoid the fates of Duerson and Seau, both of whom were personal friends of Kosar's.[50] The efficacy of Dr. Sponaugle's treatment has not been validated through any published clinical trials or other validated scientific process, nor has this treatment been supported by any reputable medical group conducting research into CTE.
    It really was not known how repeated injuries less serious than concussions effected football players until recently.

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    Re: Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It wasn't known how CTE effected football players until recently.

    It really was not known how repeated injuries less serious than concussions effected football players until recently.

    All I am saying that it seemed common knowledge to us high school kids back in the 80s. I guess we were ahead of our time.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I agree with you on the context of the posts, but come on...what you just said is really silly.
    What wist43 said was far sillier.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    All I am saying that it seemed common knowledge to us high school kids back in the 80s. I guess we were ahead of our time.
    How CTE effected football players was not common knowledge back in the 80s. In fact it wasn't until 1994 that the NFL started even seriously investigating it. And it is a fact that the NFL did not recognize it until 2010.

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    Re: Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    How CTE effected football players was not common knowledge back in the 80s. In fact it wasn't until 1994 that the NFL started even seriously investigating it. And it is a fact that the NFL did not recognize it until 2010.
    The NFL not studying it unto 1994 and not recognizing it until 2010 does not mean it wasn't widely assumed before that. Like I said, the NFL was trying to limit head trauma even back in the 80s and everyone I knew who played the game knew what was going on. The NFL has been late to the party on both counts mostly because it would be costly to admit something was wrong.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I find that hard to believe since back when I played football it was pretty easy to put two and two together.

    Through the course of the games played and practices I would regularly get my bell rung, I had no delusion that the helmet was really saving me all that much, and I would look at professional boxers and know that there was a price to pay for repeatedly getting your head whacked.

    Back in the 80s there was enough understanding of the risk of head trauma that there was an attempt to add padding to the outside of the helmet, but nobody used it because they looked ridiculous:

    mark-kelsos-head-was-used-for-helmet-storage.jpg

    I remember an interview from many years ago with a player (wish I could remember who) from the 40s-50s era of football. One of the subjects the interviewer brought up was the effects of repeated trauma to the brain for players, and whether he had any insight into that. I'll always remember his incredibly insightful response: "If you want to reduce head trauma in football go back to leather helmets". His reason was that the more advanced the head gear has gotten over the years the more willing players have been to take a blow to the head in exchange for a good tackle. If you go back to leather helmets you'd have no need for a anti-spearing rules.
    We'll just force the NFL to play touch football.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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