• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Rams select Michael Sam, NFL's first openly gay player [W:282]

Only relevant to obsessed agenda driven folks who believe homosexual issues are more important than all other considerations. The NFL draft is about football, not sexuality.

LMAO

what factual obsession and agenda are you talking about? you have never been able to support your failed claim.

outside the NFL the draft is NEWS and the first openly gay player is NEWS so its relevant period, nothing will change that until bigotry, hatred and discrimination dies down to avg levels

sorry these realities and facts bother you.

Theres an easy solution though. You could simply not watch the draft, news or even the NFL :shrug:
 
LMAO

what factual obsession and agenda are you talking about? you have never been able to support your failed claim.

outside the NFL the draft is NEWS and the first openly gay player is NEWS so its relevant period, nothing will change that until bigotry, hatred and discrimination dies down to avg levels

sorry these realities and facts bother you.

Theres an easy solution though. You could simply not watch the draft, news or even the NFL :shrug:

Yea you are pretty obsessed. I have never, repeat never posted on a thread dealing with gay issues that you have not argued on. You never give in (even when you are wrong) and you never let a post go unanswered. Yes you are agenda driven and obsessed. The good news is that's what makes you a fun guy to discuss this stuff with...

So I can't watch sports programming because you insist on having sexuality intrude upon the coverage.... obsessed? I think so.
 
1.)Yea you are pretty obsessed.
2.) I have never, repeat never posted on a thread dealing with gay issues that you have not argued on.
3.) You never give in (even when you are wrong) and you never let a post go unanswered.
4.)Yes you are agenda driven and obsessed. The good news is that's what makes you a fun guy to discuss this stuff with...
5.) So I can't watch sports programming because you insist on having sexuality intrude upon the coverage.... obsessed? I think so.

1.) again facts to support that?
2.) well theres plenty of threads here that talk about equal rights that i have not commented on so again , facts?
3.) this is factual lie because i have admitted when ive been wrong on here many times LMAO but please keep reposing this lie
4.) I ask again for factual proof of obsession and to tell us all what the "agenda" is
5.) That decision would be YOURS and its not ME insisting on anythign just facts and reality and the people in control of the things you watch.

Let us know when you can support your failed post and the lies you just posted

you post fails and gets destroyed again lol

if the youngest player was drafted it would be news and relevant
if the oldest player was drafted it would be news and relevant
if the first woman was drafted it would be news and relevant
if the first person with a physical impairment was drafted it would be news and relevant
just like now when the first openly gay person was drafted is news and relevant

again sorry realities and facts bother you :)
 
Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

So Sam was butt ****ing his boyfriend on TV? Did he blow him? I must have missed that.

Oh you mean a kiss? Wow, you watch people getting shot on the news, no problem. Dead bodies, no problem. Two women or to men kissing? OH THE HORROR!!!!!

Yes, "the horror"... in front of MY CHILDREN - just as it would inappropriate for me to swear in front of your children.

It's about respect for others, and about decency in front of people who may be offended.

I do not let my children watch violence or sex, and while it is my nature to cuss like a sailor, I refrain around my children for their sake - beyond that, I fully understand that it is inappropriate to behave in these ways in front of other people's children. You, and it would seem most homosexuals, seem to think you can do anything you want in front of someone elses child - so why wouldn't any logical person conclude that you will eventually say it is okay to moleste my child?? Only you won't call it molesting, you will call it 'sexual enlightenment of youth'.

Like I said, I don't care who you hump - knock yourself out, but have the decency to keep it to yourself. There's a time and place for everything - you seem not to have learned how to behave in public, and with respect for others.
 
Only relevant to obsessed agenda driven folks who believe homosexual issues are more important than all other considerations. The NFL draft is about football, not sexuality.

At least it was SUPPOSED to be...
 
Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

Yes, "the horror"... in front of MY CHILDREN - just as it would inappropriate for me to swear in front of your children.

It's about respect for others, and about decency in front of people who may be offended.

I do not let my children watch violence or sex, and while it is my nature to cuss like a sailor, I refrain around my children for their sake - beyond that, I fully understand that it is inappropriate to behave in these ways in front of other people's children. You, and it would seem most homosexuals, seem to think you can do anything you want in front of someone elses child - so why wouldn't any logical person conclude that you will eventually say it is okay to moleste my child?? Only you won't call it molesting, you will call it 'sexual enlightenment of youth'.

Like I said, I don't care who you hump - knock yourself out, but have the decency to keep it to yourself. There's a time and place for everything - you seem not to have learned how to behave in public, and with respect for others.

Do you want to end all kissing in public?
 
1.) again facts to support that?
2.) well theres plenty of threads here that talk about equal rights that i have not commented on so again , facts?
3.) this is factual lie because i have admitted when ive been wrong on here many times LMAO but please keep reposing this lie
4.) I ask again for factual proof of obsession and to tell us all what the "agenda" is
5.) That decision would be YOURS and its not ME insisting on anythign just facts and reality and the people in control of the things you watch.

Let us know when you can support your failed post and the lies you just posted

you post fails and gets destroyed again lol

if the youngest player was drafted it would be news and relevant
if the oldest player was drafted it would be news and relevant
if the first woman was drafted it would be news and relevant
if the first person with a physical impairment was drafted it would be news and relevant
just like now when the first openly gay person was drafted is news and relevant

again sorry realities and facts bother you :)

No lies, All true. I did say threads that "I have been on" concerning gay issues. It's true, you've been on all of them. Your idea of sports news and mine couldn't be more different. Question: would you change the channel while watching a football game if you knew figure skating was on the other channel? My guess is yes.
 
Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

Yes, "the horror"... in front of MY CHILDREN - just as it would inappropriate for me to swear in front of your children.

It's about respect for others, and about decency in front of people who may be offended.

I do not let my children watch violence or sex, and while it is my nature to cuss like a sailor, I refrain around my children for their sake - beyond that, I fully understand that it is inappropriate to behave in these ways in front of other people's children. You, and it would seem most homosexuals, seem to think you can do anything you want in front of someone elses child - so why wouldn't any logical person conclude that you will eventually say it is okay to moleste my child?? Only you won't call it molesting, you will call it 'sexual enlightenment of youth'.

Like I said, I don't care who you hump - knock yourself out, but have the decency to keep it to yourself. There's a time and place for everything - you seem not to have learned how to behave in public, and with respect for others.

So because two men in an emotional moment kissed in their own home over an important life changing experience then people want to molest your kids????

I can't understand your logic can you show me how those two things are related?
 
Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

You didn't get the memo? When one man kisses another, he's a homo. I never knew that my father was a homo because he kissed me before he died.

I agree with you on the context of the posts, but come on...what you just said is really silly.
 
Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

So because two men in an emotional moment kissed in their own home over an important life changing experience then people want to molest your kids????

I can't understand your logic can you show me how those two things are related?

They aren't. It is just blatant bigotry.
 
Because of the relentless hype.

Broncos-Bears, during that 9-2 run the Broncos had. Matt Prater kicks a 50-something-yard field goal to put the game into OT. Marion Barber fumbles on the Broncos' 35, and Tebow proceeds to drive the Broncos about 20 whole yards in about 9 plays before Prater makes another bomb to win the game.

Headline on ESPN.com that day? "Tebow Works Miracle" or some bull**** like that. Tebow had about as much to do with winning that game as I did.

Winning is winning. What position did you ever play?
 
Re: http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-michael-sam-nfl-draft-20140511-s

Yes, "the horror"... in front of MY CHILDREN - just as it would inappropriate for me to swear in front of your children.

It's about respect for others, and about decency in front of people who may be offended.

I do not let my children watch violence or sex, and while it is my nature to cuss like a sailor, I refrain around my children for their sake - beyond that, I fully understand that it is inappropriate to behave in these ways in front of other people's children. You, and it would seem most homosexuals, seem to think you can do anything you want in front of someone elses child - so why wouldn't any logical person conclude that you will eventually say it is okay to moleste my child?? Only you won't call it molesting, you will call it 'sexual enlightenment of youth'.

Like I said, I don't care who you hump - knock yourself out, but have the decency to keep it to yourself. There's a time and place for everything - you seem not to have learned how to behave in public, and with respect for others.

If modern Televison has become so offensive, then what are the alternatives?

A] Censor Televison
B] turn off the TV

which is the better alternative for you and your family?
 
After they replaced Tebow with Manning, they were in the Super Bowl within two years.



kurtWarner_vmed_latest+(9).jpg

Aaaaaaannnnnnnnnndddddddddd lost.
 
Michael Sam better be careful. There are quite a few football players that have suffered from brain trauma that has left them crippled for life. For example Tony Dorsett says he will start driving somewhere and can't remember where he was going.
 
Not shocking. Manning is overrated. As great of a regular season QB he is, he bites in the playoffs. He's never making my top ten all-time list...not with that postseason record, and not with the collection of talent he's always had around him.
 
Michael Sam better be careful. There are quite a few football players that have suffered from brain trauma that has left them crippled for life. For example Tony Dorsett says he will start driving somewhere and can't remember where he was going.

That may also be because he is 60 years old.

Also, not really sure why you need to single out Michael Sam for a warning about head trauma in the NFL, either.
 
That may also be because he is 60 years old.

Also, not really sure why you need to single out Michael Sam for a warning about head trauma in the NFL, either.

He's been suffering from it for years. It didn't just start. It's directly related to playing football and sustaining so many blows to the head. It's called Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE).

Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) is a form of encephalopathy that is a progressive degenerative disease, which can only be definitively diagnosed postmortem, in individuals with a history of multiple concussions and other forms of head injury. The disease was previously called dementia pugilistica (DP), as it was initially found in those with a history of boxing. CTE has been most commonly found in professional athletes participating in American football, ice hockey, professional wrestling and other contact sports who have experienced repetitive brain trauma. It has also been found in soldiers exposed to a blast or a concussive injury,[1] in both cases resulting in characteristic degeneration of brain tissue and the accumulation of tau protein. Individuals with CTE may show symptoms of dementia, such as memory loss, aggression, confusion and depression, which generally appear years or many decades after the trauma.

Repeated concussions and injuries less serious than concussions ("sub-concussions") incurred during the play of contact sports over a long period can result in CTE. In the case of blast injury, a single exposure to a blast and the subsequent violent movement of the head in the blast wind can cause the condition.[1]

I'm talking about Michael Sam because this thread is about him and I wish him well. Some people don't care about the people playing the game.
 
When I used to play football, there was no understanding of this

 
He's been suffering from it for years. It didn't just start. It's directly related to playing football and sustaining so many blows to the head. It's called Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE).

Yes, I am aware of the syndrome, it's just foolish to use anecdotes to make a statistical point because you run the risk of the anecdote being a misdiagnosis and torpedoing your own argument.

I'm talking about Michael Sam because this thread is about him and I wish him well. Some people don't care about the people playing the game.

When you single out a player for concern you look like you don't actually care about anybody else.
 
Yes, I am aware of the syndrome, it's just foolish to use anecdotes to make a statistical point because you run the risk of the anecdote being a misdiagnosis and torpedoing your own argument.

So you don't think that Michael Sam should be aware of the risks? Shouldn't others be aware of the risk as well?

When you single out a player for concern you look like you don't actually care about anybody else.

That's your opinion. I don't agree with you.
 
When I used to play football, there was no understanding of this



I find that hard to believe since back when I played football it was pretty easy to put two and two together.

Through the course of the games played and practices I would regularly get my bell rung, I had no delusion that the helmet was really saving me all that much, and I would look at professional boxers and know that there was a price to pay for repeatedly getting your head whacked.

Back in the 80s there was enough understanding of the risk of head trauma that there was an attempt to add padding to the outside of the helmet, but nobody used it because they looked ridiculous:

mark-kelsos-head-was-used-for-helmet-storage.jpg

I remember an interview from many years ago with a player (wish I could remember who) from the 40s-50s era of football. One of the subjects the interviewer brought up was the effects of repeated trauma to the brain for players, and whether he had any insight into that. I'll always remember his incredibly insightful response: "If you want to reduce head trauma in football go back to leather helmets". His reason was that the more advanced the head gear has gotten over the years the more willing players have been to take a blow to the head in exchange for a good tackle. If you go back to leather helmets you'd have no need for a anti-spearing rules. :lol:
 
I find that hard to believe since back when I played football it was pretty easy to put two and two together.

Whether you believe it or not, no one talked about it then. No one told me about it. My father coached football, although he wasn't doing when I played. My brother is a bit older than me and actually played pro football. We have talked about the issue many times, and we both are amazed at how nothing was known about it then.
 
Whether you believe it or not, no one talked about it then. No one told me about it. My father coached football, although he wasn't doing when I played. My brother is a bit older than me and actually played pro football. We have talked about the issue many times, and we both are amazed at how nothing was known about it then.

When would that be? I player football in the 80s and 30 years ago we all knew the perils head trauma. Concussions were a regular occurrence and it was at this time that the superstars of the golden age of boxing were all starting to show the wear of repeated head trauma. How was this a surprise to anybody?
 
When would that be? I player football in the 80s and 30 years ago we all knew the perils head trauma. Concussions were a regular occurrence and it was at this time that the superstars of the golden age of boxing were all starting to show the wear of repeated head trauma. How was this a surprise to anybody?

It wasn't known how CTE effected football players until recently.

CTE was first noticed as a “peculiar condition” casually referred to as a “punch-drunk” syndrome in boxers and prizefighters before the 1930s. It was recognized as affecting individuals who took considerable blows to the head, but was believed to be confined to boxers and not other athletes. In 2008, the Sports Legacy Institute joined with the Boston University School of Medicine (BUSM) to form the Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy (CSTE). Brain Injury Research Institute (BIRI) also studies the impact of concussions.

Between 2008 and 2010, the bodies of twelve former professional American football players underwent postmortem evaluations for CTE, and all of them showed evidence of the disease, indicating a conservatively estimated prevalence rate of 3.7% among professional football players if no other players who died during this period had CTE.[24]

In 2002, Dr. Bennet Omalu, a forensic pathologist and neuropathologist in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania found CTE in the brains of Mike Webster, Terry Long, Andre Waters, Justin Strzelczyk and Tom McHale.[23] Omalu, in 2012 a medical examiner and associate adjunct professor in California, was a co-founder of BIRI[23] and reportedly in 2012 participated in the autopsy of Junior Seau.[22] Dr. Omalu's participation was halted during the autopsy after Junior Seau's son revoked previously provided oral permission after he received telephone calls from NFL management denouncing Dr. Omalu's professional ethics, qualifications, and motivation.

As of December 2012, thirty-three former National Football League (NFL) players have been diagnosed post-mortem with CTE. Former Detroit Lions lineman and eight-time Pro Bowler Lou Creekmur,[25] former Houston Oilers and Miami Dolphins linebacker John Grimsley,[26] former Tampa Bay Buccaneers guard Tom McHale,[27] former Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Chris Henry,[28] and former Chicago Bears safety Dave Duerson,[29] have all been diagnosed post-mortem with CTE. Other football players diagnosed with CTE include former Buffalo Bills star running back Cookie Gilchrist[30] and Wally Hilgenberg.,[31] among others.

An autopsy conducted in 2010 on the brain of Owen Thomas, a 21-year-old junior lineman at the University of Pennsylvania who committed suicide, showed early stages of CTE, making him the second youngest person to be diagnosed with the condition. Thomas was the second amateur football player diagnosed with CTE, after Mike Borich, who died at 42.[32] The doctors who performed the autopsy indicated that they found no causal connection between the nascent CTE and Thomas's suicide. There were no records of Thomas missing any playing time due to concussion, but as a player who played hard and "loved to hit people," Thomas may have played through concussions and received thousands of subconcussive impacts on the brain.[33]

In October 2010, 17-year-old Nathan Stiles died hours after his high school homecoming football game, where he took a hit that would be the final straw in a series of subconcussive and concussive blows to the head for the highschooler. The CSTE diagnosed him with CTE, making him the youngest reported CTE case to date.[34]

In July, 2011, Colt tight end John Mackey died after several years of deepening symptoms of frontotemporal dementia. BUSM was reported to be planning to examine his brain for signs of CTE.[35] The CSTE found CTE in his brain post-mortem.[36]

In 2012, retired NFL player Junior Seau committed suicide with a gunshot wound to the chest.[37] There was speculation that he suffered brain damage due to CTE.[22][38][39][40][41] Seau's family donated his brain tissue to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke.[42] On January 10, 2013, the brain pathology report was revealed and Seau did have evidence of CTE.[43]

On July 27, 2012, an autopsy report concluded that the former Atlanta Falcons safety Ray Easterling, who committed suicide in April 2012, had CTE.[44][45]

The NFL has taken measures to help prevent CTE. As of July 2011, the NFL has changed its return-to-play rules.[citation needed] The number of contact practices has been reduced, based on the recent collective bargaining agreement.[46]

In 2012, some four thousand former NFL players "joined civil lawsuits against the League, seeking damages over the League’s failure to protect players from concussions, according to Judy Battista of the [New York] Times".[47]

On August 30, 2013, the NFL reached a $765 million settlement with the former NFL players over the head injuries.[48] The settlement created a $675 million compensation fund from which former NFL players can collect from depending on the extent of their conditions. Severe conditions such as Lou Gehrig's disease and postmortem diagnosed chronic traumatic encephalopathy would be entitled to payouts as high as $5 million.[48] From the remainder of the settlement, $75 million will be used for medical exams, and $10 million will be used for research and education.[48] However, in January, 2014, U.S. District Judge Anita B. Brody refused to accept the agreed settlement because "the money wouldn't adequately compensate the nearly 20,000 men not named in the suit".[49]

Bernie Kosar, who sustained several concussions during his twelve-year NFL career and has shown symptoms of CTE, has submitted himself to an experimental treatment program led by Dr. Rick Sponaugle of Florida that has alleviated many of his symptoms. The program, the details of which are proprietary, involves increasing blood flow to damaged portions of the brain. He has spoken out in public about his successes with the treatment in the hopes that others who suffer from the disease can find relief and avoid the fates of Duerson and Seau, both of whom were personal friends of Kosar's.[50] The efficacy of Dr. Sponaugle's treatment has not been validated through any published clinical trials or other validated scientific process, nor has this treatment been supported by any reputable medical group conducting research into CTE.

It really was not known how repeated injuries less serious than concussions effected football players until recently.
 
Back
Top Bottom