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Thread: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Recognizing same sex marriages as legal in no way infringes upon anyone's rights to practice their religion. If it did, then recognition of any marriages could/would infringe upon someone's right to practice their religion in some way.

    And the government giving benefits or tax breaks for marriage is an entirely different argument and has no place here because whether or not same sex couples get married, opposite sex couples who get married would still have those things. Take that 2) argument to another thread if you wish, but it in no way furthers your argument against same sex marriage.
    Except they are not just asking for "recognition" of same sex marriage. They are asking for those benefits and tax breaks. They are also using it to try to force churches to perform those marriages when the church doctrine does not support it. They are also using it as a basis to sue individuals who wish not to recognize it and conduct their business according to their desires.

    And no, I won't take it to another thread because in the end, GREED for those very things is the driving force behind the whole BS of the subject. If you take away the material gains, then nobody really gives a damn.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Except they are not just asking for "recognition" of same sex marriage. They are asking for those benefits and tax breaks. They are also using it to try to force churches to perform those marriages when the church doctrine does not support it. They are also using it as a basis to sue individuals who wish not to recognize it and conduct their business according to their desires.

    And no, I won't take it to another thread because in the end, GREED for those very things is the driving force behind the whole BS of the subject. If you take away the material gains, then nobody really gives a damn.
    The recognition of marriage comes with those benefits. So if your argument is truly with the benefits, then argue about that. (I highly doubt it will do you any good, given what we know about the financial benefits of marriage, including different tax laws for married couples and single people, but feel free anyway.)

    The basis to sue, that you are bringing up, is there too. In fact, it is there whether same sex couples are allowed to marry or not.

    Prove that any same sex couple has ever tried to force a church or clergy member to perform a wedding/marriage ceremony for them against church doctrine in the US. I dare you.

    And it isn't "greed". It is fairness. It is about so many other things, things that are not "benefits" as you are trying to describe, but rights and privileges that come with legal recognition of a familial bond, legal kinship. That is what marriage does. Grant legal kinship, just as birth certificates and adoption papers do.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    No. There is no penalty involved. Only a lack of recognition. No one is being punished by not having a relationship recognized by the government. Many relationships of a romantic or co-dependent nature get no recognition or beneficial status from the government. Government does not confer any special status or recognition on a married man's relationship with his mistress either even if they live together and do all the things a married couple would do normally. They are not being penalized by that lack of recognition.

    The difference is that if a different-sex couple chooses not to become Civilly Married, that is much different then being barred from Civil Marriage by making capricious and invidious law with the intent to deny same-sex couple equality under the law.

    They are penalized because such recognition, as a function of government, has been made illegal (in the vast majority of states).

    But that's OK, things are changing. Equality is on the way. The first court case that overturned interracial marriage bans was Perez v. Sharp (CA, 1948). It wasn't until 1967 that the SCOTUS made it national in Loving v. Virginia - almost 20 years. Using that timeline Goodridge v. Department of Public Health was decided in 2004 in Massachusetts, only 10 years ago. Marriage Equality has made great strides in the last decade, it will probably be less then a decade before it's available nationally. Already it's winning consistently in the courts, it's winning the legislatures, and it's winning now at the ballot box.


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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The recognition of marriage comes with those benefits. So if your argument is truly with the benefits, then argue about that. (I highly doubt it will do you any good, given what we know about the financial benefits of marriage, including different tax laws for married couples and single people, but feel free anyway.)

    The basis to sue, that you are bringing up, is there too. In fact, it is there whether same sex couples are allowed to marry or not.

    Prove that any same sex couple has ever tried to force a church or clergy member to perform a wedding/marriage ceremony for them against church doctrine in the US. I dare you.

    And it isn't "greed". It is fairness. It is about so many other things, things that are not "benefits" as you are trying to describe, but rights and privileges that come with legal recognition of a familial bond, legal kinship. That is what marriage does. Grant legal kinship, just as birth certificates and adoption papers do.
    Actually, I would take away the different tax brackets and all laws forcing non-governmental agencies to provide any kind of benefits. It's not the governments job. Sure I would lose that fight, but that doesn't mean it is not worth fighting.

    Unless I was able to put together an army, I doubt I would be able to change the direction things are going. Not to say I have anything against that approach, I just don't see it as being feasible at the moment and especially not over this particular issue.

    Show me any document that says life is "Fair". Fair is what you stand up and earn on your own, not begging others to give it to you.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The recognition of marriage comes with those benefits. So if your argument is truly with the benefits, then argue about that. (I highly doubt it will do you any good, given what we know about the financial benefits of marriage, including different tax laws for married couples and single people, but feel free anyway.)

    The basis to sue, that you are bringing up, is there too. In fact, it is there whether same sex couples are allowed to marry or not.

    Prove that any same sex couple has ever tried to force a church or clergy member to perform a wedding/marriage ceremony for them against church doctrine in the US. I dare you.

    And it isn't "greed". It is fairness. It is about so many other things, things that are not "benefits" as you are trying to describe, but rights and privileges that come with legal recognition of a familial bond, legal kinship. That is what marriage does. Grant legal kinship, just as birth certificates and adoption papers do.
    not to mention STRAIGHT couples get denied marriage at churches and have TRIED to sue but they failed because the church is protected by the constitution LMAO

    the quickest way to not be taken seriously on equal rights for gays is to bring up the fear tactic of the churches are going to be forced to marry gays based on gay rights LMAO, theres no more idiotic, failed and retarded unsupportable claim that that.

    If one has that "fear" it should have ALWAYS exist and would exist if gays didnt even exist. THe church is legally allowed to discriminate and has discriminated against different races, religions, straight couples and couples deemed not religious enough for centuries. Its the most dumb, mentally inept and dishonest failed strawman argument one can use.

    Many people just dont like equal rights thats all and people dont fall for it.
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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The recognition of marriage comes with those benefits. So if your argument is truly with the benefits, then argue about that. (I highly doubt it will do you any good, given what we know about the financial benefits of marriage, including different tax laws for married couples and single people, but feel free anyway.)

    The basis to sue, that you are bringing up, is there too. In fact, it is there whether same sex couples are allowed to marry or not.

    Prove that any same sex couple has ever tried to force a church or clergy member to perform a wedding/marriage ceremony for them against church doctrine in the US. I dare you.

    And it isn't "greed". It is fairness. It is about so many other things, things that are not "benefits" as you are trying to describe, but rights and privileges that come with legal recognition of a familial bond, legal kinship. That is what marriage does. Grant legal kinship, just as birth certificates and adoption papers do.
    Couple suing to force church to perform gay marriage - Illinois Review
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    The right to kill children, abortion, is not really a right.

    For your other fantasies, I think you are grossly exaggerating what they are really trying to do. In some case, yes, they would appear to supporting taking away someones "rights", primarily because it involves infringing on other peoples rights. Also, they do not support, for the most part, using government to force or enforce social agendas upon people against their rights.

    I do not support government enforcement of homosexual marriage because 1) it infringes on others right to practice their religion 2) the government should not be mandating any benefits and tax breaks based upon marital status, whether normal or homosexual.
    I agree with 2) and you only reinforce my point in your comments on abortion.
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I do not support government enforcement of homosexual marriage because 1) it infringes on others right to practice their religion ...

    Gay's are married every day in Churches, Synagogues, and Temples. You don't feel that infringes on their rights when those religious ceremonies aren't recognized equally?


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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    You know that's not in the US, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #150
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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Did you miss this part on purpose?

    "However, legal experts cautioned that the British bill left the Church of England open to legal challenge. In June 2012 a Justice Minister admitted that the government’s plans could lead to legal issues. He said the government is “seeking to protect, indeed, proscribe religious organisations from offering gay marriage”, but he continued: “That may be problematic legally”."

    Gay dads set for court challenge over church | Essex Chronicle Chelmsford

    That couple that is suing is in England. There is a big difference between our laws on marriage and the church and how the church is connected to the state (or rather isn't) and their laws in England. Which is precisely why I specified "in the US". England is not the US.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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