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Thread: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Regardless of any other issues, if someone is supporting a party that suppresses or oppresses individuals rights and promotes inequality cannot claim to be supporting "equality". If there were indeed, true equality, then this issue would not even be an issue. Taxation and benefits should be the same whether married or single, normal or homosexual, regardless of race, creed, religion, etc,etc.

    That is the problem with a basically two party system. You cannot choose just the issues you want, you have to view the overall party platform and either support it or vote against it in the whole.
    Well, if we had true 'equality' then Romney and the woman cleaning his pool would pay the same amount of tax - not at the same RATE, but the same dollar amount. That's not how it works. You've done no more than decide on some arbitrary policy choices you desire and declared that they represent 'equality.'

    Besides, in the real world, marriage comes with a slew of benefits and obligations. Whether we think marriage SHOULD is a moot point. The question is whether SS couples should have access to these benefits, and obligations, or whether to reserve them for straight couples. The courts have repeatedly ruled straight couples DO have a RIGHT to marry. All the current cases do is find there is no compelling reason to deny these 'rights' to SS couples and therefore overturned bans on SSM.

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Actually while the legislators in question can be voted out over it, an impeachment itself cannot be overturned, and the Senate has the power when impeaching to forbid the individual from holding office again.

    It will happen. I live in Arkansas, and we're not going to leave the judge who introduced legal same-sex marriage to the state in office.
    Is it just the result you don't like, or do you think the judge misinterpreted the law. When the SC struck down DOMA, Scalia was certain the result would be many laws against SSM would be struck down. If Scalia was correct, the judge here was simply doing his job and following the law, which, unless a judge is expected to simply make up the law, is required for his position, what he has sworn to do.

    It's a bit scary when a judge faces what you predict near certain electoral defeat for doing his job consistent with his oath of office.

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is not likely to happen. Especially since you seem to be at least one vote short of 2/3rds Republicans in the Senate (assuming however unlikely it is that all the Republicans in this legislature would go along with this call to impeachment), and in all likelihood, not all of those are going to agree with impeaching a judge for ruling on something in a way the people do not agree with, especially given the current public opinion on same sex marriage and the younger view on it, even in Arkansas. That would be political suicide.

    Even getting the impeachment started would be difficult since there is just barely a majority of Republicans in the House, and the same thing holds true above, that those who brought an impeachment up would be risking a lot for such an issue.

    And I can find polls that say that a good percent of even Arkansas voters support same sex marriage.

    Gay Marriage Poll Results for Arkansas

    Arkansas attitudes improving on gay equality; state leader speaks up | Arkansas Blog | Arkansas news, politics, opinion, restaurants, music, movies and art

    "The bipartisan poll found that 61 percent of Arkansans under age 30 support marriage equality,..."

    "The link to fuller poll results shows overall opposition to marriage equality continues in Arkansas. But the number was 55-38, compared with the 75 percent that approved the marriage ban in 2004. "

    Just over half of the population of Arkansas supports the marriage ban. That is not a lot. Certainly not a logical amount to risk political suicide for just to impeach a judge who ruled a way the government does not approve of. It would be petty and cowardly for any lawmakers to do this, and would not go over well at all with young voters.

    Update: From the Arkansas Speaker of the House, David Carter,

    "Trying to impeach a Judge because you don't like his or her decision notwithstanding the subject matter is absurd and goes against hundreds of years of the way our great country has conducted business under our three branches of government. Circuit judges are elected by the people, as are our appellate and state Supreme Court judges. The appellate process needs to run its course. Our forefathers saw the importance of our constitution and system of self-governance. That system has worked well for a long time and make us who we are as a country. I won't support any effort to undermine that."

    AR State Senator Talks Impeachment After Judge's Same Sex Ruling - Local News, Weather, Sports, and Community for Central Arkansas
    Isidewith self-selective polls are not scientifically valid.

    Was the other poll of eligible voters, registered voters, or regular voters?

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Actually it is the House that impeaches, upon a vote to impeach it is the Senate that tries the impeachment.


    LITTLE ROCK, AR -- Speaker of the House Davy Carter has issued a response to the "impeachment chatter" following the ruling which declares the same-sex marriage ban unconstitutional.

    The following is the direct quote from Carter:

    "Trying to impeach a Judge because you don't like his or her decision notwithstanding the subject matter is absurd and goes against hundreds of years of the way our great country has conducted business under our three branches of government. Circuit judges are elected by the people, as are our appellate and state Supreme Court judges. The appellate process needs to run its course. Our forefathers saw the importance of our constitution and system of self-governance. That system has worked well for a long time and make us who we are as a country. I won't support any effort to undermine that."


    AR State Senator Talks Impeachment After Judge's Same Sex Ruling - Local News, Weather, Sports, and Community for Central Arkansas
    http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assemb...tution1874.pdf


    >>>>
    I'm aware of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Is it just the result you don't like, or do you think the judge misinterpreted the law. When the SC struck down DOMA, Scalia was certain the result would be many laws against SSM would be struck down. If Scalia was correct, the judge here was simply doing his job and following the law, which, unless a judge is expected to simply make up the law, is required for his position, what he has sworn to do.

    It's a bit scary when a judge faces what you predict near certain electoral defeat for doing his job consistent with his oath of office.
    Both.

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Both.
    Just in general, or was there some specific part of his opinion that misstated the law and the precedent his position requires him to follow? For example, him not agreeing with the majority of the SC doesn't give him the authority to dismiss binding precedent.

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Just in general, or was there some specific part of his opinion that misstated the law and the precedent his position requires him to follow? For example, him not agreeing with the majority of the SC doesn't give him the authority to dismiss binding precedent.
    Which SCOTUS ruling requires him to overturn the gay marriage ban?

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Which SCOTUS ruling requires him to overturn the gay marriage ban?
    Several, including Loving v Virginia in connection with Lawrence v Texas and Windsor, to name a few that can be used as evidence that marriage is a right and that equal protection of the laws is not being upheld when marriage is restricted on the basis of sex/gender due to the fact that, so far, no one has shown a legitimate state interest in making such a restriction.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Several, including Loving v Virginia in connection with Lawrence v Texas and Windsor, to name a few that can be used as evidence that marriage is a right and that equal protection of the laws is not being upheld when marriage is restricted on the basis of sex/gender due to the fact that, so far, no one has shown a legitimate state interest in making such a restriction.
    Which SCOTUS ruling requires him to overturn the gay marriage ban?

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Which SCOTUS ruling requires him to overturn the gay marriage ban?
    I was asking. You said the judge didn't apply the law correctly, and I was curious what part of his opinion you felt didn't reflect current law.

    Remember, I'm not the one who is all in favor of this guy getting unelected (perhaps impeached?) because they didn't like the RESULT. If the guy misapplied the law, what did he get wrong?

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Which SCOTUS ruling requires him to overturn the gay marriage ban?
    I already gave them. You simply don't want to accept them.

    Judges use their judgements on cases and interpret the laws and even past rulings. If they were required to base every single ruling on past cases and decisions to the letter, then they would be pointless and we would never have had many unjust laws overturned because courts in the past made a different interpretation of the law.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I already gave them. You simply don't want to accept them.

    Judges use their judgements on cases and interpret the laws and even past rulings. If they were required to base every single ruling on past cases and decisions to the letter, then they would be pointless and we would never have had many unjust laws overturned because courts in the past made a different interpretation of the law.
    They don't require him to.

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