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Russia's Putin outlaws denial of Nazi crimes

The article is how to say it...well it's yahoo. I haven't seen the actual law yet but here is what is written at President of Russia

Vladimir Putin signed Federal Law On Amendments to Certain Legislative Acts of the Russian Federation.

"The Federal Law aims to oppose attempts to infringe on historical memory in relation to events that took place during World War II.

The Federal Law makes it a criminal offence to deny facts recognised by the international military tribunal that judged and punished the major war criminals of the European Axis countries, approving the crimes this tribunal judged, and deliberately spreading false information about the Soviet Union’s activities during World War II.

Criminal penalties are increased if the above-mentioned activities are carried out by individuals using their official position or mass media, or by fabricating proof of accusations.

The Federal Law also makes it a criminal offence to publicly spread information on military and memorial commemorative dates related to Russia’s defence that are clearly disrespectful of society, and publicly desecrate symbols of Russia’s military glory. The Federal Law sets administrative liability for legal entities that commit these offences."

Btw. TV Rain wasn't "taken off" it still broadcasts: TV Rain the situation it was involved in was much more complicated.

Fallen.
 
Wiseone said:
I could be, but is this a topic about Al Sharpton? Is Al Sharpton relevant to this discussion? Does the fact that Al Sharpton uses religion to achieve political ends somehow mean that Putin doesn't use religion for that purpose? Just what exactly are you ****ing driving at here? What is your intent with this post other than to derail the thread?
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Just trying to add a little perspective.

And if a one sentence post can derail an entire thread then I would say that the thread was probably in desperate need of derailing. No matter, though. Carry on...
 
Fallenangel said:
The Federal Law makes it a criminal offence to deny facts recognised by the international military tribunal that judged and punished the major war criminals of the European Axis countries, approving the crimes this tribunal judged, and deliberately spreading false information about the Soviet Union’s activities during World War II.
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This bold portion is the only part that I have problems with. Whereas the areas regarding axis war crimes- overwhelimingly Nazi are clearly defined by the reference to the crimes tried at Nurenburg, "spreading false information about the activities of the Soviet Union" can be very vague.

For example, would books detailing deportations of Chechens, Kalmyks, Tatars, Volga Germans, etc. be considered "spreading false information". What about Soviet repressions in eastern Poland, or the Baltic states? Or, what about books detailing early Soviet incompetence both miliarily and administratively (certain number of avoidable deaths in Leningrad)?
 
TheNextEra said:
As long as it is YOUR God and a Morality YOU agree with of course. Many Cons love to force their morality down other people's throats but hate it when others do it to them.
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You mean force your lack of morality down our throats
 
Cryptic said:
This bold portion is the only part that I have problems with. Whereas the areas regarding axis war crimes- overwhelimingly Nazi are clearly defined by the reference to the crimes tried at Nurenburg, "spreading false information about the activities of the Soviet Union" can be very vague.

For example, would books detailing deportations of Chechens, Kalmyks, Tatars, Volga Germans, etc. be considered "spreading false information". What about Soviet repressions in eastern Poland, or the Baltic states? Or, what about books detailing early Soviet incompetence both miliarily and administratively (certain number of avoidable deaths in Leningrad)?
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I"ll try to address it later today, now I need some sleep :)

Fallen.
 
jmotivator said:
Hitler used false faith to garner support as he gained power. It was a lie.

Look no further than his actions to see he is no Christian.
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There are those who would argue that same point in regards to action of this country throughout it's history. Religious and moral ground are often used to justify.

I don't know what's in Putin's soul at this point but, he's done nothing to compare him to Hitler.
 
WCH said:
There are those who would argue that same point in regards to action of this country throughout it's history. Religious and moral ground are often used to justify.

I don't know what's in Putin's soul at this point but, he's done nothing to compare him to Hitler.
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Well, neither had Hitler done much when he was still selling the pretense that he was Christian in the 1920s.
 
WCH said:
You mean force your lack of morality down our throats
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Yes, you hate freedom we know. You are not forced to smoke pot if legalized, you are not forced to marry someone of the same sex is legalized, so spare me your victimization.

You want to FORCE people to act out YOUR morals. My morals don't force you to act in anyway.
 
jmotivator said:
Well, neither had Hitler done much when he was still selling the pretense that he was Christian in the 1920s.
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Your really trying to compare him to hitler?
 
24107 said:
Your really trying to compare him to hitler?
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No, I am pointing out that you can't judge a political leader by his professions of faith when his actions are diametrically opposed to the tenets of that faith.
 
jmotivator said:
Well, neither had Hitler done much when he was still selling the pretense that he was Christian in the 1920s.
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I'm holding judgement on Putin because we have enough issues with our own little tyrant.

10334366_496042407162944_675023575648670812_n.jpg
 
TheNextEra said:
Yes, you hate freedom we know. You are not forced to smoke pot if legalized, you are not forced to marry someone of the same sex is legalized, so spare me your victimization.

You want to FORCE people to act out YOUR morals. My morals don't force you to act in anyway.
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I'm all for legalization of pot but, SSM and homosexuality are out right sins.

Least my morality has substance instead of just feelings.
 
WCH said:
I'm all for legalization of pot but, SSM and homosexuality are out right sins.

Least my morality has substance instead of just feelings.
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There are LOTS of LEGAL things that are sins. So again, legal doesn't mean YOU have to do it, therefore your morals are not affected if YOU don't do them if legal. YOU want to force people to abide by YOUR morals.

Two gay guys getting married doesn't affect YOUR morals. Unless of course you find yourself having an urge to marry someone of the same sex.
 
TheNextEra said:
There are LOTS of LEGAL things that are sins. So again, legal doesn't mean YOU have to do it, therefore your morals are not affected if YOU don't do them if legal. YOU want to force people to abide by YOUR morals.

Two gay guys getting married doesn't affect YOUR morals. Unless of course you find yourself having an urge to marry someone of the same sex.
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When one sins there are consequences that spill over to us all...family, friends, co-workers etc and blot out the presence of God in our lives.

If I lived on an island by myself, I doubt I would care but, since I don't....
 
WCH said:
When one sins there are consequences that spill over to us all...family, friends, co-workers etc and blot out the presence of God in our lives.

If I lived on an island by myself, I doubt I would care but, since I don't....
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Denying SSM doesn't stop the so called sin of homosexuality.

You clearly hate freedom and only wish to make everyone else abide by your morals.
 
WCH said:
When one sins there are consequences that spill over to us all...family, friends, co-workers etc and blot out the presence of God in our lives.

If I lived on an island by myself, I doubt I would care but, since I don't....
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I don't think that morality should be based on the laws of a bronze age tribe living in the desert
 
Andalublue said:
I wonder if he outlawed denial of Stalinist atrocities too. Hmmm...let me think...
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That would seem a reasonable question except for the fact that Stalin's atrocities
were so colossal that virtually every family was touched by them, and anyone who
denied them would be taken for an idiot.
 
Cryptic said:
This bold portion is the only part that I have problems with. Whereas the areas regarding axis war crimes- overwhelimingly Nazi are clearly defined by the reference to the crimes tried at Nurenburg, "spreading false information about the activities of the Soviet Union" can be very vague.

For example, would books detailing deportations of Chechens, Kalmyks, Tatars, Volga Germans, etc. be considered "spreading false information". What about Soviet repressions in eastern Poland, or the Baltic states? Or, what about books detailing early Soviet incompetence both miliarily and administratively (certain number of avoidable deaths in Leningrad)?
Click to expand...

I agree that they used some quite vague terminology, but unfortunately they use it pretty much in almost every law now.

Regarding the ugly sides of communism, I"ll try to explain it using one of the most divisive issues as an example - Stalin.
Even after all this time Russia is still struggling to find a common ground on the role of Stalin in Russia's history. There is a very deep divide in Russia's history scholars circles/general public regarding him:
1. Some see him as a great leader that lead a country to a great victory in WWII, usually refusing to hear anything bad a bout him and his era.
2. Others see him only as a murderous blood thirsty devil that only killed people, and refuse to accept anything good that happened during his rule.
3. The third group either understands the complicated picture of Stalin's rule, or simply doesn't care.

In my opinion, although the third group is by far the largest one, the first two are the most vocal ones and they also have vocal representatives in the media and government. Until few years ago Russia's schools and historical debates were filled with numerous books and self-proclaimed history experts, each trying to push his "unique" view of history.

Now there is a new "unified history book" in the works, I believe that the exact wording regarding Stalin wasn't yet actually reviled (though I might be wrong as I don't particularity follow the news about it) but from what I read, it at least partially manages to represent history at somewhat an unbiased manner, thought both the anti and pro camps already managed to critic it.

Getting back to the law - imo the usage of such vague definition is a failed attempt to put some more clarity to Soviet era history, while trying not to agitate any of the hardcore sides of the argument.

Fallen.
 
TheNextEra said:
Denying SSM doesn't stop the so called sin of homosexuality.

You clearly hate freedom and only wish to make everyone else abide by your morals.
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I CLEARLY dislike sin and it's effect on society in general. You don't want to lead a moral existence...fine. Go find a nice place to do it where it doesn't affect your family, friends and acquaintances and spread it's vile consequences..
 
Wiseone said:
I don't think that morality should be based on the laws of a bronze age tribe living in the desert
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We know. You would prefer there was no morality at all...right?
 
24107 said:
Russia's Putin outlaws denial of Nazi crimes
Do you think this was a good choice by him?
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So Russians have been denying Nazi war crimes and USSR's role till now. Putin has about had it with such behavior and now bans any Russian from denying Nazi war crimes and USSR's role in WW2 any futher? Are the Russians in Crimea obliged to follow suite?
 
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